CD44hi Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 To the best of my knowledge, first hand and from other fellow users, it seems that some headphones benefit more from going into a balance configuration than others. I thought it could be helpfull to have a thread where we can cross-reference personal experience with cans that you have had the chance to seriously evaluate in single ended mode and also in balanced mode. The ease of cable switching in the Sennheiser makes them an ideal cable rolling headphone. Should we bother to try to balance a specific headphone? This is were your input becomes valuable. I just asked whether it makes a similar difference in sound to balace the HD600 vs balance HD650. From the response I got (thanks tkam!), it seems the HD600 isn't as good balanced. How about Audio Technica ATH-L3000? or AKG K701 (it seems this ones don't benefit as much? but I have 1st hand experience yet). Sony MDR-SA500? I'll start by pointing out that at the beginning I thought the MDR-sa5000 did not benefit that much from balancing them. But the longer I listened with them, I realized I was having no fatigue (which used to be a big issue with this headphones in my experience). Also, to my ears, bass response has tightened up with this headphone. I need to find out what specific cable rockhopper audio used to balance them, since this would be important. Listening amplifier was SinglePower Maestro XLR. So please share with us your personal experience with headphones you have had the chance to seriously evaluate in single-ended and in balance configuration, which amplifier(s) did you use for your listening sessions, which cable is or was on the headphones and finally, and more importantly, should we bother to balance the headphone under scrutiny!! Please be as extensive in your thoughts as you would like. Cheers!
Grand Enigma Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 I have yet to hear anything that is as drastic as the Senns... the 600 did change a great deal but not as positively as the 650s did for me. The PS-1s were subtle but certainly worth it... they sounded a lot more controled. The L3ks were not drastic either but seemed to gain some authority behind the sound. The K701s I still dont know about... I think I like them equally as well balanced and unbalanced. I really want to hear the RS-1s balanced... so someone feel free to loan me a pair
PATB Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 HD650 -- WOW!!!! Speakers are the next upgrade kind of sound. Tried with the Blockhead, SDS-XLR, and SDS-XLR Accent-T. Qualia 010 -- Even clearer and more dynamic, if you can believe that. However, not as dramatic change as the HD650. Tried with Dynamight and SDS-XLR. Thanks for the heads up on the PS-1 and K701. Balanced RS-1 is next on my agenda.
philodox Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 Can't wait to hear my K340's balanced... as far as I know, nobody has.
tkam Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 So far for me the 650's have the most dramatic improvement but really I think every headphone I've tried has improved to some degree when balanced. If I can make it to the maryland meet in a few weeks hopefully I'll get to hear Hirsch's balanced rs-1's.
CD44hi Posted March 3, 2006 Author Report Posted March 3, 2006 Grand Enigma, Could you elaborate on the change on the HD600 vs HD650 going balanced? Are they less dynamic? Thanks!
CD44hi Posted March 3, 2006 Author Report Posted March 3, 2006 BTW, For the ATH-L3000 what cable did you guys use as a replacement for the balanced mods? Ah, of course, has anyone done a complete reclable on the K701? THat would be a much more elaborate project I guess. I mean, would it be better to convert it in to a double entry headphone? drill a hole and such? hum.....
Dusty Chalk Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 ...and SDS-XLR Accent-T.What is this? My view on balancing headphones -- I think there is a fundamental problem with the three-conductor approach, so anything that separates out the two signal paths is a good thing.
hirsch Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 What is this? SDS-XLR with a tube rectifier in the power supply.
hirsch Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 I think balancing is also going to be an interaction between the specific amp and the specific headphone. At a meet that I hosted, Tyll brought a balanced DT-880. On the Balanced Max, that was possibly the best sound I've ever heard from a Beyerdynamics headphone. On my SDS-XLR, I thought the improvement was neglible. gpalmer lent me the balanced RS-1 and also PS-1. While both improved on SDS-XLR, the change in the RS-1 was radical, while it was incremental with PS-1. However, he reported that the exact opposite occurred on the Gilmore Balanced Reference (I didn't hear this personally). Since he preferred PS-1 a lot with his Gilmore, and we both felt that magic occurred between RS-1 and SDS-XLR, he sold me the RS-1 (Thanks again Greg!!!). Ergo 2 is interesting balanced, but an improvement over single-ended? Not sure. HD-650 is magic when balanced. However there are a couple of single-ended amps that can make magic happen with that headphone also (Radii HAP-03 comes to mind), although it's a different kind of magic. I get very good results with balanced Qualia 010. However, I've never heard it run single-ended with the cable I like (Headphile BlackSilver that I terminated myself). So, I'm not sure if improvement was due to balancing or the cable. Coming very soon: balanced R10. I've got high hopes for this one.
Grand Enigma Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 Your comments on the RS1 and PS1 would make sense. They are two very different sonic signatures. I however think it is a fair to generalize about specific phones. Balanced is no different then single-ended when it comes to synergy with specific type amps. I have heard the L3ks with a simple retermination and todd's pair with the blackmax??? I believe. The two balanced K701s that I know of were just simply reterminated as well. Surprisingly enough AKG has two separate ground channels despite the fact that it is single entry... that was sure nice of them CD44hi - I have always liked the 600s better single-ended as I find the 650s to be too dark and muddy sounding to me. Balancing the 650s seems to get rid of the excessive darkness and muddiness in the sound and gives them better balance. The 600s, while I still really like them balanced, just did not fair as well. The 600s seemed to become greatly over emphasized in the bottom end which proved a bit too much for me
CD44hi Posted March 3, 2006 Author Report Posted March 3, 2006 That helps GE, thanks! You know, I wonder... The Ergo 2, also have the two grounds (one per channel.) Incidentally, with respect to the K701s, when balanced the Ergo sound a bit more dynamic, but the effect isn't as profound as with the HD650s. I wonder if by having the 2 independent grounds they are having the advantage already, even on single ended mode...
thrice Posted March 3, 2006 Report Posted March 3, 2006 I need to find out what specific cable rockhopper audio used to balance them, since this would be important. Listening amplifier was SinglePower Maestro XLR Oddly enough it was some old aluminum wire I had lying around that I stripped out of a wall from my parent's old house Actually it's Belden Silver coated copper stranded wire.
strid3r Posted March 4, 2006 Report Posted March 4, 2006 I am somewhat new to the whole balancing thing. Could someone give a technical explanation on how balancing a headphone improves the sound?
PATB Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 I may have spoken too soon on the balanced Qualia. In trying the different permutations of tubes that I have, I completely forgot the most basic of tube combos for singlepowers, which is Ken-Rad VT231 (gain) in front of Sylvania VT231s (driver). Using this tube combo with AYT999's "white" cable (see below), the Qualia 010 gains a full sound and punchier bass. The HD650 will have to take a break and go back to its box for a while.
ayt999 Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 Using this tube combo with AYT999's "white" cable (see below) my white cable, aka the headphone cable that took three days or so to make (I lost count since I worked on it on and off over the course of a few months). who knows if a 8-wire helical litz braid of 30AWG silver-plated copper has any sonical benefits over four wires, but it sure looks impressive, at least to me. too bad it's microphonic, I need to put some sleeving on it perhaps. so you notice an improvement over an unbalanced 010? say using those nifty controls on your SDS-XLR to compare it between unbalanced and balanced output running through the same headphone cable.
PATB Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 I was wondering how you made the cable. I didn't count the number of wires but the braiding looks impressive I realized the improvement last night but wasn't able to convince myself until I did several cable swaps with stock this afternoon. The difference is readily apparent, primarily in soundstage and bass impact. You brought up a good point though. The difference might be due to the cable or tubes/headphone synergy. What I need is a single-ended version of the same cable to verify. In any event, I think the balanced R10 looks promising but is at a disadvantage because you can't cable roll as easily.
aerius Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 Can't wait to hear my K340's balanced... as far as I know, nobody has. Mine is now. Significant improvement, well worth it, though I do not have a balanced source yet to complete the chain. So far the only headphones I've heard balanced are my Senn 580, a friend's 650, and my own K340. Of those the 650 & K340 improve the most while the 580 only has modest gains, which could probably be equaled by upgrading to a better single-ended amp.
hungrych Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 Mine is now. Significant improvement, well worth it, though I do not have a balanced source yet to complete the chain. So far the only headphones I've heard balanced are my Senn 580, a friend's 650, and my own K340. Of those the 650 & K340 improve the most while the 580 only has modest gains, which could probably be equaled by upgrading to a better single-ended amp. What amp are you using? Your objective-interim thingamawhatsis?
aerius Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 What amp are you using? Your objective-interim thingamawhatsis? That's the one, though I do need to come up with a new name for it one day. That is, if I can put my soldering iron down and stop tweaking it.
philodox Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 Mine is now. Significant improvement, well worth it, though I do not have a balanced source yet to complete the chain. So far the only headphones I've heard balanced are my Senn 580, a friend's 650, and my own K340. Of those the 650 & K340 improve the most while the 580 only has modest gains, which could probably be equaled by upgrading to a better single-ended amp. Wait, your amp is balanced now?!?! Bring it over biatch! I'm getting the Lavry with Renato on Thursday!!!
aerius Posted March 5, 2006 Report Posted March 5, 2006 Wait, your amp is balanced now?!?! Bring it over biatch! I'm getting the Lavry with Renato on Thursday!!! Balanced outputs, but single-ended inputs, and without a big re-wiring job on the front end it can't accept balanced inputs. And it uses a 4-pin XLR on the output so I don't think it's going to help on your K340. Plus it's still mounted on a pine board (literally) so it's not going anywhere.
philodox Posted March 10, 2006 Report Posted March 10, 2006 Balanced K340's sound nice out of the Lavry Black.
TheSloth Posted March 12, 2006 Report Posted March 12, 2006 1st post! Greetings Headcase! Balanced 650's - yeah!
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