Full size speaker help

[deepak]

Seems there's a very high chance I'll be getting into my first choice hospital for my residency which means I can buy a house in the neighboring town.

I'm looking for a full range set of speakers, that normally sell for under $4500-5000 used. Mainly listen to all types of jazz and rock. I listen to pretty much all types of rock, but if I had to place emphasis it would be classic and prog rock. What I'd really like is exceptional imaging, soundstage, midbass and midrange performance. I don't need the absolute authority in bass and treble extension. I'd prefer to keep this strictly 2 channel; no subwoofer.

Basically something fun to listen to that still have all those audiophile qualities

As for associated components, I intend to keep my DA10 as source, but this would probably be the first thing to be upgraded to a much superior transport/DAC. Also some speakers that don't require ridiculously expensive preamp/amps to shine would be nice

My hifi speaker exposure is limited but I'll say I was extremely impressed by a colleague's Avantgarde Duo setup. And I also heard the Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy 8 and very briefly the Von Schweikert VR4 SR. Obviously all of them are out of my price range but I could easily live with any of them.

[grawk]

Residency must pay better than it did when my dad was a resident.

[deepak]

Nothing's changed. Just less hours, call every third night max.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'd try to hear something in Focal's 800 V series -- perhaps the 836.

Unfortunately, the Diva (the cheapest full-range of the Utopia line) is out of your pricerange.

Quad? ESL 989 appears to appear under US$5K...

Martin Logan -- definitely check them out.

Nearfield Acoustics Pipedream -- they've come down in price quite a bit. Some of the best speakers I've ever heard.

Wilson Benesch...

[tkam]

At that price I'd keep an eye out for a pair of Legacy Audio Focus 20/20. They are easily one of the best speakers I've heard regardless of price. Another speaker you might want to consider is the Selah Audio 3D: http://selahaudio.com/id134.html. I heard a pair of these recently and was very very impressed.

Are you planning to use your Aleph30? If so the Focus 20/20 will be a better match as they are very efficient speakers.

[TheSloth]

For the Aleph you might want to consider something full range, like the Omega Max Hemp or Omega Revolution for example.

[n_maher]

I'd prefer to keep this strictly 2 channel; no subwoofer.

Not to nitpick your decision but why? I would think that if ultimate fidelity is the goal while keeping costs "reasonable" that a great solution would be two speakers and two subs.

Really, I'm just hoping that you'll take a flier on Outlaw Audio's new speakers and put them with a pair of the LFM-1's.

[deepak]

I'd try to hear something in Focal's 800 V series -- perhaps the 836.

Unfortunately, the Diva (the cheapest full-range of the Utopia line) is out of your pricerange.

Quad? ESL 989 appears to appear under US$5K...

Martin Logan -- definitely check them out.

Nearfield Acoustics Pipedream -- they've come down in price quite a bit. Some of the best speakers I've ever heard.

Wilson Benesch...

I'm not too sure if I want to dive into electrostats again...I had a pair of STAX and they were very picky about music.

On the Quads, aren't they really good for classical?

I'll try and audition the Martin Logans sometime.

At that price I'd keep an eye out for a pair of Legacy Audio Focus 20/20. They are easily one of the best speakers I've heard regardless of price. Another speaker you might want to consider is the Selah Audio 3D: http://selahaudio.com/id134.html. I heard a pair of these recently and was very very impressed.

Are you planning to use your Aleph30? If so the Focus 20/20 will be a better match as they are very efficient speakers.

Not necessarily going to keep the Aleph. I was thinking of selling it since it puts out a ridiculous amount of heat.

Thanks for the suggestions

For the Aleph you might want to consider something full range, like the Omega Max Hemp or Omega Revolution for example.

Cool will try and get an audition

Not to nitpick your decision but why? I would think that if ultimate fidelity is the goal while keeping costs "reasonable" that a great solution would be two speakers and two subs.

Really, I'm just hoping that you'll take a flier on Outlaw Audio's new speakers and put them with a pair of the LFM-1's.

I guess I've never heard a proper setup where a sub was perfectly integrated with the music. It always seemed like after the crossovers cutoff (80-100 hz) the sub just made the bass sound separate from the music

Has anyone heard anything by DynAudio? I'm liking the reviews and they have a more conventional appearance.

[n_maher]

If you're able you should take a trek down to http://www.ensemble-av.com/ in Nashua. I've dealt with them in the past and they've been great and they carry higher-end stuff like you're looking for.

And a quick note about sub-sat setups, if you've got a laptop you can pick up a mic, download some software and tune the crossover in the sub to be pretty seamless.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm not too sure if I want to dive into electrostats again...I had a pair of STAX and they were very picky about music.

Okay.

On the Quads, aren't they really good for classical?

If you believe that speakers can be good for one kind of music and not for another.

I'll try and audition the Martin Logans sometime.

Worth a shot. What I like about electrostatics is the lack of crossovers -- at least one fewer, in the case of the Martin Logans.

I guess I've never heard a proper setup where a sub was perfectly integrated with the music. It always seemed like after the crossovers cutoff (80-100 hz) the sub just made the bass sound separate from the music

Well, it can be done. But at that price, you should be able to get full-range speakers.

Has anyone heard anything by DynAudio? I'm liking the reviews and they have a more conventional appearance.

I have a pair of Special 25's -- can't recommend them. They're power-hungry as all git, otherwise they have a major midrange suckout.

A couple more: Reimer Tetons (mightl be impossible to audition, though); Soliloquy...?

[tkam]

My hifi speaker exposure is limited but I'll say I was extremely impressed by a colleague's Avantgarde Duo setup. And I also heard the Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy 8 and very briefly the Von Schweikert VR4 SR. Obviously all of them are out of my price range but I could easily live with any of them.

Since you liked the VR4 SR you might want to check out the Tyler Acoustic Linbrook Signature System:

http://www.tyleracoustics.com/linbrook.html

[aerius]

Has anyone heard anything by DynAudio? I'm liking the reviews and they have a more conventional appearance.

I've heard nearly their entire range except the Evidence series, other than the Special 25 I can't stand them. It's like they took the worst of the Senn 580 and AKG K701 and made a speaker out of it, to me they're veiled & dead sounding while at the same time managing to be harsh in the treble & lacking in detail & resolution.

The top speaker on my list would be the Living Voice Avatar, it looks like a blocky piece of crap but it's ridiculously good. Very high resolution, clarity, & detail, yet it remains musical and will not make sub-par recordings sound like crap, everything sounds good. It's slightly rolled off on top compared to say, a Wilson Benesch, and the bass doesn't go down to 20Hz, but everything else is top notch. Was my reference speaker for perfect sound until I heard the Avatar OBX-R.

Another choice would be the Opera SP Callas, which is good enough that it can be mistaken for a Quad ESL57 if it weren't for the bass. Not quite as detailed, dynamic & fast as the Avatar, but ridiculously good for what it costs. Haven't heard the Diva yet, but I'm guessing it would be a warmer sounding Avatar based on my listening experience with the Divina & SP.

[TheSloth]

On the Quads, aren't they really good for classical?

QUAD's aint like anything in the electrostatic headphone world, save perhaps the HE90. The 989's could work for you, but that's going to be room and volume dependent. If you think 90dB or lower is a 'good' listening level, and are happy with -6dB at about 35hz, you'll get incredible performance out of them. If you have the room for them, the dipole nature will also work more happily with room nodes down there, giving you cleaner and tighter bass response.

Irrespective of whether you decide they are right for you, I think that hearing a pair of newer (I say newer to refer to the 9xx onwards simply due to the somewhat finnicky nature of earlier models (he says, having just had to do some repair work on his 63's...)) QUAD's is an experience every 'audiophile' should have at some point.

Edit: p.s. the bass you get out of QUAD's is a factor of how far or close you listen. They interact less with the room in that department, so it's less a factor of room size. For example, the old 63's are -6dB at 45hz at 3M, but -6 at 32hz at 1M.

[deepak]

Thanks for all these recommendations. I'll try and do as much auditioning as possible, really this setup probably won't even be in the infancy stages until November/December.

Nate I'll definitely try and make it to Nashua in the coming weeks.

[deepak]

Since you liked the VR4 SR you might want to check out the Tyler Acoustic Linbrook Signature System:

http://www.tyleracoustics.com/linbrook.html

What traits does the Linbrook Sig System share with the VR4SR?

[deepak]

I heard a Vandersteen 2Ce setup this weekend and was surprised with what I heard. I think I might grab a pair of these used and continue to save up for my dream Avantgardes in the future.

[TheSloth]

I'm reviving this thread for my own purposes rather than making a new one...

Ok, so after a while with QUAD's they were just too big, both in size and acoustic space requirements for my room. I sold them and downsized to some simple cones. I tried some direct marketed Aperion stuff and it really wan't good at all. I'm not sure it could really be called good for it's price point even.

In any case, I have the opportunity to get an excellent deal on some Acoustic Zen Adagios (www.acousticzen.com). They are still extremely expensive, but with the trade in deal I was offered they are just within my budget, and seem to be ideal for my listening environment (not a huge room, nearfield listening, don't want to fiddle with subs or stands).

I'm trying to decide between spending a huge amount of money and expecting a huge amount (in a room that can't be tailored for acoustic perfection), or going for something good but cheap like the www.ascendacoustics.com stuff which is supposed to actually be very good for the money (and from everything I've read, in terms of reviews and the hard measurement data on their site seems to be justified).

Attached is a diagram of my room for anyone interested. The things on the walls behind the speakers and the listening couch (where the slippers are) are GIK 242 panels.

[Dusty Chalk]

Dude, you even put your slippers in the diagram. LOL!

I'm trying to decide between spending a huge amount of money and expecting a huge amount (in a room that can't be tailored for acoustic perfection), or going for something good but cheap...

I think that should be a function of (a) how much time you actually spend listening to the speakers, and ( what you can afford.

[tkam]

I think Dusty is on the right track here, if you are going to use them a lot and they are speakers you really want and plan to keep for years then go ahead and get them. You can worry about room acoustics later.

[Grand Enigma]

The 3As are significantly better ...heard them side by side not too long ago.

[TheSloth]

The 3As are significantly better ...heard them side by side not too long ago.

Perhaps, but in my room at that nearfield distance, I'm not so sure.

[TheSloth]

Dude, you even put your slippers in the diagram. LOL!I think that should be a function of (a) how much time you actually spend listening to the speakers, and ( what you can afford.

I only had to click a button for the slippers. Wasn't hugely difficult or time consuming...!

[Dusty Chalk]

No, it's great! It's a good indicator of the listening position.

Oh, and if I may ask: what software did you use that provides slippers with a button-click?

[aerius]

In any case, I have the opportunity to get an excellent deal on some Acoustic Zen Adagios (www.acousticzen.com). They are still extremely expensive, but with the trade in deal I was offered they are just within my budget, and seem to be ideal for my listening environment (not a huge room, nearfield listening, don't want to fiddle with subs or stands).

I've listend to the Adagios recently again and I don't think they'd be a good speaker coming off the Quads. The midrange hardness and bass issues which I noted in my impressions when they first came out are still there after lengthy break-in and use, they never went away. Compared to the Quads, the Zen's coherency throughout its frequency range is probably going to be a bit disappointing. The bass just doesn't keep up with the rest of it.

Personal choice for me would be the Opera Callas Sp, if you're not careful you can confuse them with a set of Quads. Quads are bit clearer & faster while the Operas have a bit more warmth & weight.

Or if you can find a pair on the used market at a decent price, the Living Voice Avatars is likely your ticket. Basically a Quad with a slightly warmer balance and more dynamics & bass.

[TheSloth]

I've listend to the Adagios recently again and I don't think they'd be a good speaker coming off the Quads. The midrange hardness and bass issues which I noted in my impressions when they first came out are still there after lengthy break-in and use, they never went away. Compared to the Quads, the Zen's coherency throughout its frequency range is probably going to be a bit disappointing. The bass just doesn't keep up with the rest of it.

Current or original Adagio (flat or slanted mid-woofer baffles?)? Because on top of the angled drivers, they worked on the crossover for even flatter response (and interestingly the HF specs now state 25k instead of the original 30k).