At what point will it be reasonable to arm our teachers to protect students?

[HeadphoneAddict]

This whole Connecticut shooting today really has my hackles up.  I can't help but think that if the victims, or in this case the teachers, were armed that there would be fewer casualties when a person snaps and goes on a rampage somewhere.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/14/police-respond-to-shooting-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

 

What in the world would drive someone to shoot and kill 20 innocent elementary school children !?!??!?! 

[blessingx]

Delete. Why did I bother? Sleep well HPA.

Edited December 14, 2012 by blessingx

[HeadphoneAddict]

We can't rid society of all guns - they're too pervasive.  There will always be a blackmarket supply for criminals if law abiding people are banned from ownership.

 

So what is the solution to making people safer with the reality that we can't get rid of them?  

[MoonShine]

Yeah... more guns are the answer.

[Grahame]

Yep, choose your child's school based on their teachers grouping and tactical reload skills.

 

It's a societal thing.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

 

One data point being Switzerland

 

Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

 

"Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm

 

Bill hicks said this 20 years ago 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MEzCtyRWP8

 

Do you fear your neighbor?

[deepak]

My thoughts go out to all the families affected

[crappyjones123]

what happens when a teacher loses his/her shit and has a gun in the closet? 

[The Monkey]

Of course we can get rid of the guns.  "We" just don't want to.  

[Salt Peanuts]

My thoughts go out to all the families affected

This.

 

Oh, and HPA, you're a jackass.

[skullguise]

At work, we were just having discussions on this horrible tragedy

 

Maybe we could be focusing more attention on why people SNAP more in the US.....

 

My wife called me in the middle of the day, she and I are heartbroken for those families, and also the impact it will have on the other kids that survived but had to witness that...so so so sad.

[grawk]

It'd definitely be reasonable to arm our teachers when classroom shootings become regular enough to not get attention on the news. Until then, maybe not.

As to why there seems to be more violence in the US than other first world countries, it's probably related to the extreme demographic and sociological diversity, causing more societal friction.

[The Monkey]

Maybe we could be focusing more attention on why people SNAP more in the US.....

 

 

Are there data to support that conclusion or is it simply that the free and easy access to guns makes multiple killings simple when one snaps?  IOW, I would suspect (but do not know) that people "snap" at more or less the same rate in industrialized nations.  It's what they do once they snap that differs based on the tools available to them.  IMUO.

[shellylh]

what happens when a teacher loses his/her shit and has a gun in the closet? 

 

This!  Not all teachers are stable.  

 

Also, why should put teachers in that sort of position! 

[Dusty Chalk]

According to at least one bystander, it was supposed to be a particularly safe area.  If you need to go to that sort of extreme in the safe areas, you're basically suggesting that we need to do this everywhere.  We do not need to do this everywhere.  It's a statistical thing -- you take a chance leaving your home, going to school, going to work, heck, you take a chance breathing.  Heck, you take a chance living as a hermit in a cabin in the middle of nowhere.  Nothing is safe, and we can't protect against every possible contingency.  It's just not financially feasible.

 

One thing we can do is educate.  It would have been nice if there was a plan, and if the teachers knew what to do besides lock their doors and cower, although I'm not sure what else they could have done.

 

In terms of snapping, this will always happen.  I heard a psychologist on the radio discuss how the best thing we can do for nutjobs like this is to ignore them, because they do it for the attention.  But in a free society with such an aggressive journalist force, that will never happen.  I'm not talking sensationalization -- this sort of story is self-sensationalizing.  Reporting this story in the most understated matter will still have a sensationalizing effect.  It's unavoidable.

 

So the best thing we can do is tut-tut over the losses, start with the man in the mirror and try to lead a normal healthy life both physically and mentally, do your best not to be that guy, and move on, because otherwise the terrorists win.

[catscratch]

I'm with Dusty on this one. Yes, this is a very messed up thing to happen, but if we over-react and institute some sort of draconian law that negatively affects absolutely everyone, these guys win. While my heart, such as it is, does go out to the families affected by this, this doesn't automatically mean that all of our children, everywhere, are at suddenly at mortal risk. The worst thing we can do is screw up the school environment even more because of this.

 

On the other hand, some basic emergency response training for teachers should probably be mandatory, if it isn't already.

 

Plus, it's easy to point at this incident and say "see, this is why we need stricter gun control," but the people that want to get their hands on guns are going to get their hands on guns anyway. I don't think that's the answer. What the answer is, and if there is one, I don't really know.

[robm321]

My thoughts go out to all the families affected

^ this is all I'm thinking about

Edited December 14, 2012 by robm321

[Voltron]

Why stop with teachers?  Why not arm the kids themselves?  Arm the mall workers.  Arm the popcorn salespeople at movie theaters.  Arm fucking everyone!  It worked so great for nuclear weapons we should just have Mutual Assured Destruction in all aspects of our lives.  If everybody is armed, then nobody will fuck with anybody, right?

 

And Catscratch, gun control IS the answer.  There is no excuse or reason for anyone to own assault weapons.  Except Naaman or Jeff, because they need to kill people sometimes.

 

*Edited to respond to the right person. 

Edited December 14, 2012 by Voltron

[shellylh]

I just wanted to add that my heart goes out to the families and friends of the victims... heck, my heart goes out to everyone.  This is just so tragic.  (Perhaps there should be another thread for this sort of thing though.)

 

 

Edit:  We also really need better mental health programs in the US.  I suppose that is obvious. 

Edited December 14, 2012 by shellylh

[Dusty Chalk]

No, put it here.  I'd be more than happy to see a gun control/pro gun argument thread deteriorate into a condolences thread instead of the other way around for a change.

[crappyjones123]

Al, I never said it wasn't. I simply remarked on the notion that teachers should be armed. I personally think a trained officer of the law would be better suited to handle lethal weapons than a math teacher and just because the constitution grants us citizens the right to bear arms, doesnt mean they can have high power assault rifles. Actually I dont know if a distinction is made in the constitutiom as to what arms are allowed but what is the case and what ought to be the case are different arguments.

Whether war is right or not is a different question but that is perhaps the only place I can think of assault rifles being appropriate - I can't see any good coming off of joe the plumber wielding an m57 or whatever that fucktard had.

Edited December 14, 2012 by crappyjones123

[bhjazz]

Are there data to support that conclusion or is it simply that the free and easy access to guns makes multiple killings simple when one snaps?  IOW, I would suspect (but do not know) that people "snap" at more or less the same rate in industrialized nations.  It's what they do once they snap that differs based on the tools available to them.  IMUO.

Available tools, and (unfortunately) the media.  I think people who possess the mental problems that would put them in the state of "snapping" realize that a mass shooting is an option.  The more they see it, the more they likely may be to believing it is somehow ok.

[swt61]

Are there data to support that conclusion or is it simply that the free and easy access to guns makes multiple killings simple when one snaps?  IOW, I would suspect (but do not know) that people "snap" at more or less the same rate in industrialized nations.  It's what they do once they snap that differs based on the tools available to them.  IMUO.

 

I completely agree.

 

Why stop with teachers?  Why not arm the kids themselves?  Arm the mall workers.  Arm the popcorn salespeople at movie theaters.  Arm fucking everyone!  It worked so great for nuclear weapons we should just have Mutual Assured Destruction in all aspects of our lives.  If everybody is armed, then nobody will fuck with anybody, right?

 

And Crappy, gun control IS the answer.  There is no excuse or reason for anyone to own assault weapons.  Except Naaman or Jeff, because they need to kill people sometimes.

Again, completely agree. Except you called out Crappy when he sounds like he agrees, it was Catscratch that thought gun control wasn't the answer.

[Dusty Chalk]

There are others who disagree whole-heartedly with gun control, please let's not make this personal and call anyone out on anything.

[Wmcmanus]

I just feel totally sickened by this, and my heart goes out to all of the victims and their families. I don't really care one way or another about gun control. I don't own any guns, nor do I have a desire to, but understand that others do. If only we could stick a fork in someone a get a measurement of their sick-fuck-edness, like we get temps of turkeys on Thanksgiving Day, then we could vaporize them in some cruel way before they exert their cowardice.

[grawk]

Yup, I'm a dyed in the wool gun nut. I think this is a tragedy. I also think we shouldn't make public policy based on highly publicized outliers.