Whats the point?

[postjack]

I don't understand portable audio. Excellent sound quality will never come out of a portable DAC no matter how much red wine you pour on it (or drink for that matter). I understand the greater public at large being obsessed with their iToys, but I don't understand why the audiophile community continues to rant and rave about their hornets and tomahawks and all that bullshit. I swear, every other fucking post at Head-Fi is "omg my fucking tomahawk arrived its so awesome out of my new nano lol sonic excellence yay". I'm definitely no expert on audio, but I think I know enough to know that you will not get great sound out of a portable player running mp3's with a subpar DAC. Could someone tell me what the obsession is, please? Even better, could someone tell me where I am wrong? And then I look at pics from any given meet and I see people testing out amps which run thousands of dollars running off a fucking ipod dock. shit fuck, i mean, come on.

Sorry to unload, I'm just so fucking sick of all the stupid fucking tomahawk posts fucking up MY amplification forum at Head-Fi. Keep it in your portable audio forum, you fuckin' fucks.

[grawk]

When jude encourages it, what do you expect?

But seriously, portable amps today are better than anything available just a couple years ago. It's not surprising people are thrilled with the performance of their portable setup.

[aerius]

If everyone were as smart as me we wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately "smart" and "average Head-fi member" don't belong in the same sentence without the word "aren't". Of course the admin ain't exactly helping things along with their blatant censorship and propaganda. In short, lack of unbiased information, people buy into the hype and it snowballs from there.

[TheSloth]

Well I'm not into portable amps and suchlike, but my current source which I just love for convenience, size and SQ is a 60G iPod Photo with the iMod modification.

Even from a home source perspective, to get this thing for a total expenditure of $400 is just amazing.

[ojnihs]

I agree with TheSloth, I think the iPod is a fine piece of hardware and a pretty damn good source for the money. I went completely portable recently, mostly because I couldn't find any particular reason to keep a home system that I just wasn't using. I only use the iPod headphone jack to my etymotic er4p's, and sure it's not the greatest thing in the world, but it works and works pretty damn well enough for me to still enjoy my music.

[hungrych]

If everyone were as smart as me we wouldn't have this problem.

We can only hope...

[aerius]

Yeah, I know, it's not easy being me.

Getting back on topic and expanding on my previous post. Back in the old days of Head-fi, it was pretty easy to learn things, members were for the most part helpful and offered pretty good advice with the exception of some flaming idiots like Sovkiller, but almost everyone knew about them anyway so it didn't affect things much. I could read reviews, do searches, ask questions, and generally get pointed in the right direction.

Nowadays, well, good luck. Fanboys everywhere shilling whatever they own, dissenting opinions getting oppressed and deleted right & left, it's damn near impossible to find good information and trustworthy opinions over there. There's massive commercial conflicts of interest and hidden agendas getting played out every day, there's just too much crap to wade through before coming across something with a kernel of truth. It's no wonder newbies are hopelessly overwhelmed and lost with all the bullshit that goes on over there.

The part which really saddens & angers me is how Head-fi takes advantage of the lost by shoving crap at them and relieving them of their money. Great for the short term, you get to move lots of product and raise the profile of Head-fi, but long-term, it's going to backfire on them as people become disgusted and/or disillusioned. It ain't gonna be healthy for the hobby in the long run.

[ojnihs]

Well said Aerius.

[deepak]

For what they cost the ipod is a really competitive DAP, and offers good hardrive size vs cost ratio, with good looks, slim shape, and an awesome range of accessories. Purely from a sound quality point of view I think they're pretty shitty having owned the photo and video.

[Dusty Chalk]

Although I disagree on principle -- quality sound can be had on portable audio -- I agree that most of those posts are full of shit. It takes a lot of thought and effort to put together a quality portable rig.

[Dusty Chalk]

It ain't gonna be healthy for the hobby in the long run.

Quoted for emphasis.

[Ben Gramain]

I don't think the bitchfest is new, its just that there's a lot more of it these days. Then you've got the board here, which has it's own peer group who perpetuate their own myths. It's only a better myth because it's your peer group but ultimately plus ca change. If this place gets bigger, it's going to end up pretty much like Head-Fi, or go down in flames. (The latter seems more likely)

I've given up on doing anything fancy with my portables. So much placebo, so much bullshit. I wonder how many who bought an iMod also hung onto a variety of unmodified iPods as well like I did. And about the only amp worth bothering with for all sorts of reasons - an amalgam of size, performance, etc - are the Xins. And even then the difference is marginal at best when you're actually portable.

To the OP - it's not about the sound, it's about the geeking involved.

[Ben Gramain]

Ah for f's sake this edit time limit is annoying for a serial editor like me.

Continuing from the last post:

For someone who can't drop a grand on an amp or source to try every six months, are studenty and therefore mobile, portables are the shit for audiogeeking. It's what drives the market at Head-Fi. The RSA's are popular because among other reasons they're well put together. If sound quality alone sold amps of any kind, Alex Nikitin would be making a nice living from amps right now.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Getting back on topic and expanding on my previous post. Back in the old days of Head-fi, it was pretty easy to learn things, members were for the most part helpful and offered pretty good advice with the exception of some flaming idiots like Sovkiller, but almost everyone knew about them anyway so it didn't affect things much. I could read reviews, do searches, ask questions, and generally get pointed in the right direction.

Nowadays, well, good luck. Fanboys everywhere shilling whatever they own, dissenting opinions getting oppressed and deleted right & left, it's damn near impossible to find good information and trustworthy opinions over there. There's massive commercial conflicts of interest and hidden agendas getting played out every day, there's just too much crap to wade through before coming across something with a kernel of truth. It's no wonder newbies are hopelessly overwhelmed and lost with all the bullshit that goes on over there.

The part which really saddens & angers me is how Head-fi takes advantage of the lost by shoving crap at them and relieving them of their money. Great for the short term, you get to move lots of product and raise the profile of Head-fi, but long-term, it's going to backfire on them as people become disgusted and/or disillusioned. It ain't gonna be healthy for the hobby in the long run.

I couldn't have expressed it better myself. ^^

I used to lay down the hammer on noobs that hyped garbage gear, but no more. This is due to:

a) being banned from head-fi at work

too many noobs and shills to bother trying to help anymore

Sadly most of the people with in depth audio headphone knowledge no longer post there anymore. Unfortunately they didn't migrate somewhere else.

Biggie.

[postjack]

Getting back on topic and expanding on my previous post. Back in the old days of Head-fi, it was pretty easy to learn things, members were for the most part helpful and offered pretty good advice with the exception of some flaming idiots like Sovkiller, but almost everyone knew about them anyway so it didn't affect things much. I could read reviews, do searches, ask questions, and generally get pointed in the right direction.

Nowadays, well, good luck. Fanboys everywhere shilling whatever they own, dissenting opinions getting oppressed and deleted right & left, it's damn near impossible to find good information and trustworthy opinions over there. There's massive commercial conflicts of interest and hidden agendas getting played out every day, there's just too much crap to wade through before coming across something with a kernel of truth. It's no wonder newbies are hopelessly overwhelmed and lost with all the bullshit that goes on over there.

The part which really saddens & angers me is how Head-fi takes advantage of the lost by shoving crap at them and relieving them of their money. Great for the short term, you get to move lots of product and raise the profile of Head-fi, but long-term, it's going to backfire on them as people become disgusted and/or disillusioned. It ain't gonna be healthy for the hobby in the long run.

Your responses have made me rethink my position. First off, I never considered that it is not necessarily about the SQ, as it is about the "geeking", i.e. look at this cool amplifier I got on my iPod. Second off, I understand that a lot of newbies have an iPod before they ever come to Head-Fi, already think it is the end all be all of audio equipment, and come just looking for a new set of cans, then are told they need an amp, yadda yadda, the cycle begins.

Third off, I would be remiss if I didn't say I was one of those kids. I came to Head-Fi "looking for the best headphones under $100 for my ipod and playing games lol". And before my journey into this hobby I was an iPod/Apple FANATIC. I was crazy about iPods. Heck, I bought a 2g nano back in september, but I ended up selling it a couple months later when I realized it just didn't suit my purposes, since I listened to the vast majority of my tunes at home, I had no need for portability.

But I did use the search engine, and posted LOTS of questions, and engaged in lots of conversation via back channel PMs and e-mails, and in general have spent many many hours reading through years worth of posts on Head-Fi: I did all this and I managed NOT to buy a Tomahawk or a Hornet, or an Audio Line Out Cotton Platinum Diamond Coated Super Duper Dock of Fun Times and Sonic Excellence SQ, or any bullshit like that. Before I go anywhere in life, much less the internet, I'm always quick to put on my bullshit filter.

Regardless, it wasn't until recently I talked to a friend of ours and took the proverbial blue pill, so to speak. I do agree that the type of shady marketing that apparently goes on over at Head-Fi will hurt this hobby in the long run. Heck, I'm all for making money, and I hold little sympathy for suckers, AND I am of the opinion that any given internet forum should be moderated with at least an aluminum fist, but if the type of things I'm told go on over at Head-Fi do indeed go on, thats pretty crappy.

[philodox]

I understand and respect aerius' point, but I don't look at it the same way myself. I never thought head-fi was a place to get information to make a decision... I always relied on the opinions of people I respect for that. For me it has always just been a place to find out about new things and show off your own stuff. If I can guide someone with my 'wisdom' that is great... but I am not expecting others to guide me.

I'll agree that there are more newbs than there used to be though, and I can see how that would rub some people the wrong way. I just ignore any threads that don't grab me with their title look for the little arrows that tell me I've posted there before.

It really does come down to what interests the individual though... and what intimidates them. People who are new to the hobby are really only interested in portable gear as they dont have the money or need for a home setup. I've noticed at a few of the recent toronto meets that it was basically 95% portable audio, and that is where the newbs gathered and that is what they talked about. Other than a few curious people, I basically had to bring them over to listen to my [non portable] setup. That one at the tranzac that we both went to wasnt bad, but the bunch that came before it were brutal.

[tkam]

I'm still not a big fan of portable amps, it's one more thing to carry around and don't even get me started on all the stupidly overpriced mini-mini cables people get suckered in to buying. If someone is just starting in this hobby and needs something thats portable I'd recommend they get an ipod of their choosing and some headphones in their budget. I'd rather let them save up money for a future home amp then have them waste money portable amps which for the most part are pretty crappy.

[hYdrociTy]

portables do kind of suck. though nothing beats taking a 650 to a park in the city at night. (although ive once brought along a glite/dps, pcdp and a big power cord LOL)

there comes a point where you just have to stop and move on. a pint(50 bucks) or pimeta(90 bucks) with a cdp (via cardas 12 dollar cable) is as close as you can get, and any other junk like 200 dollar ipod wire removal+a capacitor, 350 dollar amps ,and 100 dollar "docks" is just retarded

[TheSloth]

Have you actually heard the 'iPod wire removal'? There's already a thread on it, but irrespective considering the total cost is little over $400 maximum, it's damn good. Forget portability (never taken mine out of the house), it's just good, period.

[hYdrociTy]

yep, albeit all i could compare were 320 lame files or face listening to stuff I havent before, though I'm sure lossless would reveal all the subtle nuances that one would get the upgrade for, I still think there should be a huge benefit even with a nicely encoded 320, but it didnt convince me, even though I had been using fairly high end stuff (my sr71 with er-4s(foam) and senns). Maybe I should try lossless, but until then my opinion holds that yea an amp to a 4g ipod is alright, and adding a mod is proabably only worth if you all you have is lossless and some real high end stuff like maybe customes or if you use this like.. as your main rig for some reason..

[hYdrociTy]

oh yea and the cable i used on the above tryout was some cheezy mini-mini if that matters... couldn't find a cardas one..

[hYdrociTy]

wtf is "ipod wire removal?"

imod. and how on earth did sloth get a 60 AFTER the mod for 400? Or did he get a used ipod on on ebay or something. Last I looked the refurb 60's were like 70 bucks more.

I guess it would be cheaper to get a new hd and an imod versus some new thin video which would be useless for me. I still have to pursuade myself that the 200 would be better spent on a mod and 40 or 60 hd than a 120gb hard drive and no mod.....

[postjack]

imod. and how on earth did sloth get a 60 AFTER the mod for 400? Or did he get a used ipod on on ebay or something. Last I looked the refurb 60's were like 70 bucks more.

I guess it would be cheaper to get a new hd and an imod versus some new thin video which would be useless for me. I still have to pursuade myself that the 200 would be better spent on a mod and 40 or 60 hd than a 120gb hard drive and no mod.....

Or get a 512mb 1g shuffle for $30 on eBay!

Well thats my portable rig but I fear sun and moonlight.

[TheSloth]

imod. and how on earth did sloth get a 60 AFTER the mod for 400? Or did he get a used ipod on on ebay or something. Last I looked the refurb 60's were like 70 bucks more.

I guess it would be cheaper to get a new hd and an imod versus some new thin video which would be useless for me. I still have to pursuade myself that the 200 would be better spent on a mod and 40 or 60 hd than a 120gb hard drive and no mod.....

The $400 was my total cost including purchase of the 60Gb Photo Refurb and the iMod.

[mirumu]

I think the iPod, etc and portable amps have their place but there's clearly limits as to how much performance you can get out of them and how much money it's worth spending on them. In terms of cables, I do believe in some sonic improvements offered by cables based purely on my own experience but when you're limited by a shoddy DAC and the iPod dock connector thick multi-strand cables made of exotic materials are pointless.

Personally I do use a portable amp but primarily as a work rig. I have actually taken a larger tube amp into work in the past but it's a risk for theft, etc. It's much easier to throw a portable system into my bag at the end of the day. When it comes to cables, I just rolled my own with a short length of quality OFC, some gold connectors and a little silver solder which I already had. Cost me less than $10 to make and is more than good enough for an iPod interconnect I feel.