What's your take on the RS-1?

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

You just wait until I get my Zapfilter in [it just arrived] and Peter finishes my amp. [hopefully Renato and I will pay him a visit next weekend]

Yeah but he already heard them out of my system, which has a better output stage then the zapfilter and a finished amp pumping 30w of refined power.

Biggie.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I'm lazy, so instead of rehashing my feelings of the rs-1 into a new post, I'll just post my old rs-1 "review".

I was never happy with the sound of my headphones coming out of my weakly powered pcdp but I was at a loss on how I could get better sound. In a nutshell I wanted the music to sound much more real and dynamic. This was before I stumbled upon Head-fi on that fateful day sometime in March of 2002. My cans of choice were Koss r-80?s, a large closed headphone retailing for under $50 that by the way kick the crap out of Sony v6?s (in that they do not suffer from extreme harshness or overdone bass). I read all I could on the forum and it was not soon afterwards that I picked up a pair of Beyer dt250-80?s. Upon listening I liked what I heard; this can has a nice relatively neutral tone with recessed highs and slamming bass. Soon to follow would be a headphone amp and various portable sources; I was addicted to achieving better sound.

Although my music collection was sounding better then it ever had, I was not satisfied yet. Around this time, head-fi was filled with hype over the AT w100?s and I was curious to try out a wooden headphone. Around this time I also managed to burrow a friends Grado sr60?s. Compared to my Beyer?s, the bass was lacking but I was digging the way cymbals shimmered, it was really great for rock. And so it was that I was drawn to the rs-1, a wooden headphone that a kind head-fier told me was more suited for rock music then the AT cans because of where the midrange colourations lay in each can. At the time the U.S. was going through a bit of a recession and there was plenty of goodies in the for sale forum. I managed to pick up a pair of used rs-1?s for cheap that had been up for sale for quite some time.

I was excited when my rs-1?s finally arrived. I put them on and thought to myself how is it that a headphone looking so beautiful off the head looks so hideous on the head (hot). Back then my ears were far less refined, I didn?t know what a mid bass hump was or the difference between harsh and smooth, all I knew was that the rs-1 took some of the shimmering cymbals of the sr60?s, added the bass fullness of the 250-80?s and completed the cycle with a warm enchanting midrange. Now this was my kind of headphone. J

My next experience with high-end cans was when ZZZ let me borrow his Grado hp2?s for a while. While I can see why these cans are so highly respected, they just don?t do it for me. I never found myself grooving along with the music and only found them to best the rs-1?s when I switched over to orchestral music (where I find better tonal accuracy and a less aggressive sound a good thing). Am I bothered by the headphones lack of colourations? No, not particularly. Does the tight detailed bass that lacks any sort of fullness and the absence of musical energy bother me? Yes, yes it does. I had not given up on this headphone yet, but it wasn?t giving me what I wanted in my system.

I was also able to listen to ZZZ?s omega 2 set-up which at the time consisted of Cary 303/200->KGSS->Stax Omega 2. I was hearing something special (and this was my first time listening to a dedicated cd player). With this combo, details float out of a black background and the hiss from each recording is very audible, redefining for me what a low noise floor is. The sound of the 007t/kgss combination is very natural and true to the recording. When listening I?m not placed at a live venue; I?m in the studio with the artists experiencing every detail in a very refined and pleasant way. The sound is free of colourations (like hp1000), though they don?t drain the life out of music like an hp1000 can. The bass is extended and full (unlike hp1000) with no bloated bass hump (unlike rs-1). There is bass in quantity and it changes texture from recording to recording. The cymbals on these cans put the rs-1 cymbals to shame. They recreate them exactly as I would like a can to, not out of control with tizzyness like John Grado cans. Vertigo-1 once wrote that Grado cymbals sound like cars crashing and in almost every system I find this to be true. The soundstage of the omegas is wide and high providing lots of separation. So what did I find missing with the omega 2?s? Impact. I love to feel the sensation of the drums as if I was really there. The omegas do have impact, but it is not to the extent of the Grados. For me the rs-1?s were still keepers.

Fast forward to the first Toronto head-fi meet. I was now equipped with a Gilmore v1 amp and d515 pcdp. I was not really digging the combo (particularly in the midrange) but I was curious to find out how other amps would compare and to hear more of the world?s high-end headphones. I was able to try Sony r-10 (not nearly enough bass for this bass head), AKG 1000 (speakers on my ears, haha no thank you), Sony cd3000 (lacking midrange fullness) and Sennheiser hd600 with Cardas and Equinox (boring presentation). I also got to try the hp1000?s with a Melos and a set amp but I still couldn?t get the cans to wakeup and get my foot tapping. The combo that wowed me the most at the meet turned out to be msjrr?s custom 300b tube amp with my rs-1?s. The sweetness of the midrange drew me in and I was still rocking along to the music. The magic of tubes was what was missing in my system it turned out. I immediately knew I had to get myself a tube amp that could drive low ohm cans well and build a complete system around the combo.

At the time, other then the Ear hp-4, there weren?t many amps to choose from so I asked the builder of msjrr?s amp about building a tube amp for low ohm cans that would be great for rock music and he had just the thing in mind. A few months later I had my own el34 tube amp and things were starting to get good in my system. My source back then was a Shanling s100 (music hall cd25), which with some new opamp chips and a decent power cord I was able to get a smooth non-bright presentation out of. The sound was detailed, wide and flat. I craved more depth and fullness in my system so I saved up my pennies.

A couple months past before I set out on finding a better source. I auditioned 7 different sources in the $2-3k range along with a friend who also has rs-1 headphones and likes similar music. The first 6 sources we not a big enough difference over my Shanling to justify the cost. Then we headed over to Fab Audio, the place that built my amp and listened to their modified Teac player. This was it; I had to have this player. The depth and dynamics were great and paired with my amp, the music sounded as real as I could wish for. I sold off all my portable gear and bought their demo model within a month.

That was last summer and since then my system has gone through many tube changes, power cord swaps and interconnects to get the sound just right (I?m talking synergy). One main goal of mine has been to get rid of the tizzy sound on cymbals the rs-1 loves to make. This fuzziness around the cymbals is affected by every component in my system. A few high priced power cords and cables were actually adding to this effect so they had to be replaced. I can say now that I managed to get rid of the problem. The cymbals are still overly sweet but I am satisfied with what I have (and obviously I?m not satisfied easily hehe).

I think certain head-fiers would be amazed by how refined the rs-1 can sound. Don?t get me wrong, these phones will always have a syrupy midrange, tipped up highs and a mid bass hump, but they can sound so smooth, focused and natural I often found myself taken to a sonic oasis I wish I didn?t have to leave. There?s nothing quite like getting chills from listening to a recording that has been brought to life. I?m onstage with the musicians and they are playing for only me. It?s a nice place to be and it is created by a selection of components that give depth, dynamics and tube magic to complement the rs-1?s presentation, refinement and PRAT. What these headphones do is make the music come alive and get me grooving along with the music. They scale up very well and are smooth. The rs-1 can do depth (in layers), it can do a sound stage wider then your ears, and it can also sound overly bright (which is why I use flat pads). The speed of them allows playback of complex passages with ease. Unless your components aren?t up to the task, the rs-1 isn?t going to turn any recordings into mud. Imaging is very tight making it very easy to point out where each instrument is coming from, while the soundstage never creates a disjointed or analytical sonic picture. A band plays as a band with these headphones; you aren?t going to experience huge amounts of separation. The resolution of the rs-1 is great but it doesn?t compare to cans like the r-10 or omega 2?s which both reproduce trailing s-sounds better (the hardest thing in audio to get right in my opinion). These headphones aren?t for everyone, but they are my headphones of choice.

Biggie.

[philodox]

Yeah but he already heard them out of my system, which has a better output stage then the zapfilter and a finished amp pumping 30w of refined power.

Your amp sucks balls with my K340s.

As for the output stage in your CDP being better than the zapfilter... that is all relative. I'm pretty sure your output stage is single ended only?

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Your amp sucks balls with my K340s.

Yeah I killed the gain in my amp so I could have some knob turnage with grados.

As for the output stage in your CDP being better than the zapfilter... that is all relative. I'm pretty sure your output stage is single ended only?

It is currently, but it doesn't have to be. Fab uses a transformer to balance the outputs of the custom SET 300b stax amp they made.

Biggie.

[philodox]

Its all about synergy as you well know. It is not really surprising that your system tweaked for the PS-1 [sounds amazing with them] is not a great match with my K340s. Likewise, my system lacks bass with your PS-1s.

...transformer output? Icky.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

...transformer output? Icky.

I dunno, you might want to hear that stax amp before judging it. Best thing I've ever heard out of electrostats.

Biggie.

[philodox]

Yeah, I was just being a bitch. I am sure it sounds great.

[aerius]

As for the output stage in your CDP being better than the zapfilter... that is all relative.

The Zapfilter is fairly similar to the output stage on my CD player, simple & good but not exceptional. In fact those orange NEC chips are the exact same ones found in the balanced outputs of my CDP (which I took out). Yes it's likely better than the many CDP output stages which use opamps to handle the DAC output and do the filtering, but it ain't gonna give an Audio Aero Capitole or Biggie's player a run for the money. It won't nail down tone, decays, and low-level details as well.

[philodox]

The Zapfilter is fairly similar to the output stage on my CD player, simple & good but not exceptional.

It turned the Zhaolu from a piece of crap into a source significantly better than my CD-E5 or Lavry DA10. I would call that exceptional.

In fact those orange NEC chips are the exact same ones found in the balanced outputs of my CDP (which I took out). Yes it's likely better than the many CDP output stages which use opamps to handle the DAC output and do the filtering, but it ain't gonna give an Audio Aero Capitole or Biggie's player a run for the money. It won't nail down tone, decays, and low-level details as well.

What chips are we talking about here? The zapfilter is not OPAMP based. I'm confused.

Have you ever actually heard a zapfilter Eaphan? I'm sorry, but "It won't nail down tone, decays, and low-level details as well" sounds like you are talking out of your ass...

Also, what exactly is the output stage in Biggies modded player? Is it tube based, transistor based, or something else? I've heard it and it does sound great, but there isn't exactly a lot of info about the FabAudio stuff. I think he mentioned that they have closed up shop as well?

[philodox]

Missed the edit window: I would also like to point out that half the reason for going with the zapfilter in the first place is so that I can have discrete balanced outputs. It just happens to be the most cost effective way of accomplishing this as most CD players with this feature stock are insanely expensive.

In any case, all of this aside, we will just have to wait until everything is in place... then you can have a listen and see what you think.

[deepak]

Why don't you make a thread about it in the source forum rather than derailing this thread? And why are you getting so defensive over a piece of gear?

[philodox]

Why don't you make a thread about it in the source forum rather than derailing this thread?

Good idea, though I think we are pretty much done here.

And why are you getting so defensive over a piece of gear?

I just don't like when people cut something up based on taking a glance at it when they have no real world experience with it.

[humanflyz]

To further derail the thread, I just got a Dynahi...

[grawk]

No, go ahead and derail the thread, it's fine. This isn't that other place, we're not nazis.

[deepak]

No, go ahead and derail the thread, it's fine. This isn't that other place, we're not nazis.

Who cares if it's not breaking any rules, this thread was going great, especially after Biggie added his RS-1 review

[aerius]

It turned the Zhaolu from a piece of crap into a source significantly better than my CD-E5 or Lavry DA10. I would call that exceptional.What chips are we talking about here? The zapfilter is not OPAMP based. I'm confused.

Have you ever actually heard a zapfilter Eaphan? I'm sorry, but "It won't nail down tone, decays, and low-level details as well" sounds like you are talking out of your ass...

Yes I have heard a Zapfilter, don't remember the CD player at the moment except that the CD's went in label side down. Now unless we're talking about a completely different Zapfilter, the opamps chips are the 2 orange rectangles on the top of the board in this picture. Same chips as in the balanced outputs of my CD player based on what I can see of the pin-outs and partial model numbers.

Also, what exactly is the output stage in Biggies modded player? Is it tube based, transistor based, or something else? I've heard it and it does sound great, but there isn't exactly a lot of info about the FabAudio stuff. I think he mentioned that they have closed up shop as well?

Transformer output straight off a pair of differential DAC chips (PCM1702) for each channel. Does the I/V conversion and whacks the RF noise coming off the converter.

[Guest sacd lover]

Yes I have heard a Zapfilter, don't remember the CD player at the moment except that the CD's went in label side down. Now unless we're talking about a completely different Zapfilter, the opamps chips are the 2 orange rectangles on the top of the board in this picture. Same chips as in the balanced outputs of my CD player based on what I can see of the pin-outs and partial model numbers.

Transformer output straight off a pair of differential DAC chips (PCM1702) for each channel. Does the I/V conversion and whacks the RF noise coming off the converter.

http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=6

The ad copy states the zap uses transistors and not op amps.

[aerius]

The ad copy states the zap uses transistors and not op amps.

My guess is the opamps aren't in the signal path, could be something like the DC servo in KG's amps but without a board in front of me so I can trace out the circuit I can't say for sure.

[philodox]

My guess is the opamps aren't in the signal path, could be something like the DC servo in KG's amps but without a board in front of me so I can trace out the circuit I can't say for sure.

But I thought it was exactly like your CD player? [j/k]

Just checked and mine does have the orange rectangles... whatever they are.

[aerius]

Just checked and mine does have the orange rectangles... whatever they are.

They're the quantum matrix wave phase discriminator reduction devices.

[humanflyz]

how do you like it?

I haven't received it yet, only paid for it. I imagine I would like it quite a bit.

[deepak]

I haven't received it yet, only paid for it. I imagine I would like it quite a bit.

For the HD650?

[humanflyz]

For the HD650?

I'll see how it does with the HD650, but I just want a good headphone amp so that if anything new comes out, I can have something decent to drive them with.

[mjg]

i like my rs1's alot. They are way less forgiving then the lower end grados I noticed... Hf1's can mask lousier ripped mp3s, rs1's sound like ass. RS1's have so much energy, to my ears very smooth, and are fun to have. I don't listen too often anymore, but whenever I get a chance to listen to them it's enjoyable. I do like my hhf1's a bit better though.

[philodox]

They're the quantum matrix wave phase discriminator reduction devices.

Sweet! I've always wanted one of those... and now I have two!