Sennheiser HD 800 Redux

[guzziguy]

Nate, the HD800 is the most comfortable headphone, short of earbuds, that I've ever tried.  That's one of its huge advantages for me.  I can listen to them for hours with no discomfort.  I do think that they are the best sounding dynamic (and maybe best sounding period) phones that I've heard, but would not swap them for a slightly better but less comfortable pair of phones.

 

I realize you probably didn't want to hear this, but if you are looking for comfort in a high-end headphone, the HD800 is a must try.

Edited July 29, 2013 by guzziguy

[Torpedo]

I agree with Ken, the HD800 are really comfy, even in the summer heat. They're not 007/009 good sound-wise IMHO, but one can wear them for longer sessions. You should try them, Nate.

[deepak]

JMHO for me the modded 800 with BA were better than the BH/007mk1 or KGSS/007mk1. I love the 007, they will always have a special spot, just like the SR-O. I've had a chance to hear the 009 with BH in quiet settings on a few occasions and they never moved me. Even when PJ had them for as low as $3300 I didn't feel I wanted to buy one. Stax did something really right with the SR-O, black magic or whatever

 

With the Gilmore Lite I don't think the 800 are as special. I'm not sure if it's the DHTyness of the BA or higher output Z, but that combo clicks for me.

[Aimless1]

You guys are killing me.  I've been thinking about replacing the AD2000.  I do not want another can.  I do not want another can ...

 

I remember having the 800s for a short listen on loan for a meet a ways back.  That didn't really tell me anything as I discovered later I had an issue with the system at that time.  Explains why I enjoyed them before the meet but not after.  They are very comfortable.

[n_maher]

@ this thread.

[shellylh]

Let's just say that HD800 >>> AD2000.  

[Aimless1]

[mypasswordis]

The most perfect Stax ever made    . If they had SR-007 mk1 reliability I would have kept them even if I very rarely listened to headphones.

 

Not to go all HPA, but the modded HD800 are pretty close in terms of tone. And they have superior imaging. But lack that ethereal soundstage only the SR-O could do.

 True dat, they should definitely just concentrate on making a reliable SR-Omega with stronger/better arc assembly. Interesting thoughts on the HD800, I may have to revisit them at some point (and figure out which mods you are referring to).

 

Something about the old Stax which had that "magic" even if less technically capable, that the newer units I've heard are missing. And what is music for, if not the magic and the extraordinary?

Edited July 29, 2013 by mypasswordis

[spritzer]

Old Stax did get lost a lot too in technical BS and make something that wasn't so nice.  Their improvements were always that. 

[deepak]

 True dat, they should definitely just concentrate on making a reliable SR-Omega with stronger/better arc assembly. Interesting thoughts on the HD800, I may have to revisit them at some point (and figure out which mods you are referring to).

 

Something about the old Stax which had that "magic" even if less technically capable, that the newer units I've heard are missing. And what is music for, if not the magic and the extraordinary?

The mods are documented by Tyll on Inner Fidelity. Basically some foam/fabric material lining the inside earcup to kill some treble ringing. Also mild FR smoothing around 6 Khz.

[mypasswordis]

Thanks, will check out his article.

[Cee Tee]

I also love the SR-Omega.  Heard n3rdling's a couple of times before he sold them and he thought there might be a pattern of HD800 people liking that particular model.  Really wish they still made them too...

[arnaud]

It may "just" be a matter of using a thicker / less tensioned diaphragm to get back to the original omega from the current 009 iteration. If there's a will from Stax, this surely isn't impossible to achieve...

[n3rdling]

Has anybody actually confirmed that they still use Mylar?  The 009 is described by Stax as using something like "super engineering plastics".  I kinda have a feeling they're using a different PET film now. 

[spritzer]

It may "just" be a matter of using a thicker / less tensioned diaphragm to get back to the original omega from the current 009 iteration. If there's a will from Stax, this surely isn't impossible to achieve...

 

There is a bit more to it than that.  Sure the diaphragm is a factor but so is the stator design, how the whole assembly interacts with the chassis, the distance from driver to the ear, the earpads (major point there) and the disc behind the drivers as is reflects a tiny bit of the backwave. 

[arnaud]

Ok, everything ultimately matters but it's not like the 009 is wrong on so many counts to start with and there doesn't seem to be a need for a very drastic change in voicing.

Anyhow, moot point since Stax is firmly convinced they've got it right on this one...

[spritzer]

The voicing is certainly a factor and with different people comes different voicing.  They seem to think now that the right way is to make the headphones top heavy and then tone it down in the amps which doesn't really suit us. 

[arnaud]

You may need to adjust the amount of added damping to your liking as it can indeed get dull when applied in excess.

The issue with single felt/foam layers is that they will roll off not only the peak at 6kHz but also all the frequencies above it and, even worse, in larger amount.

It's fairly easy to simulate / design that stuff when all porous material properties are known (sort of like you design engine mounts to isolate most at specific frequency). Unfortunately, but you never know the acoustic properties of stuff bought at the local hardware store, hence a computer model is of limited value to the diy people.

I recall though that the guys at changstar went a long way with this and the latter mods seemed pretty darn good at scooping up the mids, relieve the upper mids peak and not remove too much above 8kHz to keep it alive sounding. Not sure what ceetee sent you but there may be more to it?

[spritzer]

I agree here, these mods went too far which is why removed them all after a while.  Subtle surface treatment is all you need sane as you get around tweeters. 

[complin]

What sort of surface treatment are you suggesting then Birgir? Many tweeter treatments seem to be surroundung them with thich layers of felt 2 or 3 inches away from the driver i.e. BBC LS3.5a http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/pics/Richard03.jpg

[complin]

I have spent more time and money on trying to make the HD800 listenable than would normally be justified only because it has such potential.

Unfortunately I've not, or likely to have the opportunity to listen to your L-2, but it must be pretty damn good given Tyll's comments. However; I do have a feeling the HD800 really performs at its best when driven balanced. Is there any possibility of you developing a balanced version of the L-2?

 

The Z out on both the L-2 and DSHA-1 on the high setting is ~40 Ohms. On the low setting, it is lower, ~10 Ohms for each. Much of this comes from the copper resistance in the transformers.

 

Adding series resistance on the low setting will make both sound worse. This is because the transformers only have so much inductance. Beyond a certain point, the load has too high of an impedance for this inductance. Adding the series resistance will create a mismatch and you'll lose bass, and just muck thing up.

  Edited August 4, 2013 by complin

[spritzer]

The L-2 fully balanced would be very complex and defeat the point of the circuit IMO.  I did tell Doug to just put an XLR output and be done with it though.   

 

What sort of surface treatment are you suggesting then Birgir? Many tweeter treatments seem to be surroundung them with thich layers of felt 2 or 3 inches away from the driver i.e. BBC LS3.5a http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/pics/Richard03.jpg

 

That felt paper stuff they use on the surface of the tweeter panels.  That felt is utter overkill but these were also nearfield monitors. 

[Tyll Hertsens]

I measured a bunch and it seemed that a small amount of felt in just the right place measured better than thicker/wider applications of a variety of geometries.

[Torpedo]

The right place, being?

[wink]

I'm in the process of building a box that allows me to put in 310 ohms resistance in each positive line of a headphone to see what the difference it makes.

 

Why 300 ohms? I have a beyer T1 in my collection that's 600 ohms.

 

It has a 12 position rotary switch and a 3 position rotary switch in each leg.

So, there's 110 ohms with 10 ohm resistors in the first switch.

200 Ohms with 100 ohm resistors in the second switch.

Also has a toggle switch to plug in/out 5 ohms.

 

It will be capable of handling the normal 6.5mm TRS plug & 4 pin balanced XLR connectors.

 

I am debating whether to add 3 pin XLR connectors to the mix.

 

Should prove interesting.

Edited August 5, 2013 by wink