New "unveiled" LCD3

[deepak]

whatever happened to the audeze speaker?

Which version?

[aardvark baguette]

The small monitor, not the mitt romney tower.

No mention of it here

http://audeze.com/catalog

Edited March 30, 2012 by aardvark baguette

[spritzer]

Surely the KGSS is good enough to sufficiently drive the MK1?

And my bad if I wasn't too clear but I was speaking in relative terms from one to the other. I don't think by itself the 007 MK1 is dark and laid-back sounding but when you have something like say, the SR-202 Lambda or HD800 by its side then the differences become more apparent.

The KGSS is a lovely amp but 100% neutral it is not and neither is it the last word in driving the O2's. There is also the big issue of getting the correct fit for the 007 which takes some experimenting. It's a bit like HC, one simply does not pick up a SR-007 and starts to hear its full potential...

A used LCD-2 is a very good deal and sounds just lovely. A bit larger than life at times and the top end is lacking quite a bit but I could live with them. What do I know though as I'm still using the stock Mogami cable...

[Tari]

The small monitor, not the mitt romney tower.

No mention of it here

http://audeze.com/catalog

Per Tiffany (New CS hire at Audeze) they are currently in the D&D stage with no official release estimate. I'd guess that with the hitches in the LCD-3 release and the LCD-2 re-revision, their speakers/mics have been on the back burner.

[Dreadhead]

The KGSS is a lovely amp but 100% neutral it is not and neither is it the last word in driving the O2's. There is also the big issue of getting the correct fit for the 007 which takes some experimenting. It's a bit like HC, one simply does not pick up a SR-007 and starts to hear its full potential...

A used LCD-2 is a very good deal and sounds just lovely. A bit larger than life at times and the top end is lacking quite a bit but I could live with them. What do I know though as I'm still using the stock Mogami cable...

Spritzer what amp is the most neutral? KGSSHV? What? I liked the BHSE when I heard it but I also heard differences (I think) between tubes which makes me think it's not neutral (well maybe with specific tubes). I'm just interested really.

[spritzer]

The BHSE is pretty much neutral but the tubes will always have a bit of flavor to them. This is unavoidable as while they all adhere to the same general spec they are also all rather different. Think of it as a high voltage BJT, many of them fit the same points in some made up spec sheet but that doesn't make them all identical. The KGSSHV is also very neutral but the versions people see on the PCB's are a bit of a compromise to make the amps more user friendly (lower bias).

That brings me to the general issue of neutrality in amps and that there is more than meets the eye. Now the normal classification would be an amp that has no character of its own and passes everything unhindered through it. I think this is unrealistic since all amps shape the sound in some way so a more realistic approach would be an amp that has some character but also has enough power to never restrict the transducer. Take the SPL amps for instance, pretty much neutral with a HD800 but try them with the LCD-2 and they don't sound too hot. Nothing wrong with the LCD-2 except it simply presents a load the amp doesn't like. I don't know if this makes any sense it's been a long day and the weekend will be worse...

[purrin]

Regarding my comments on the LCD3. I've decided to change my mind about it after today, especially in comparison to the HD800. It's long story that probably hasn't ended yet. Suffice to say that I got to hear the HE90/009/007/O1 out of a DIY T2 (awesome), the HD800/R10 from the BA (very good), and the LCD3 from the BA. All under a fairly controlled environment. The source used was the PWD mk2.

Edited April 1, 2012 by purrin

[wink]

What do I know though as I'm still using the stock Mogami cable...

.

The Norse 8 conductor cable is a noticeable improvement over the stock one.

[K.S.]

Regarding my comments on the LCD3. I've decided to change my mind about it after today, especially in comparison to the HD800. It's long story that probably hasn't ended yet. Suffice to say that I got to hear the HE90/009/007/O1 out of a DIY T2 (awesome), the HD800/R10 from the BA (very good), and the LCD3 from the BA. All under a fairly controlled environment. The source used was the PWD mk2.

I noticed you put them up for sale. Are you just sticking with the hd800 or are you going to go stax?

[K3cT]

Yeah, sorry. The KGSS is a good start but you should really here them on a BHSE. The qualification though makes all the difference as well as perspective. I certainly agree that compared to the HD800 the OII is dark but then again compared to the OII the HD800 is painfully bright, from my perspective.

The KGSS is a lovely amp but 100% neutral it is not and neither is it the last word in driving the O2's. There is also the big issue of getting the correct fit for the 007 which takes some experimenting. It's a bit like HC, one simply does not pick up a SR-007 and starts to hear its full potential...

A used LCD-2 is a very good deal and sounds just lovely. A bit larger than life at times and the top end is lacking quite a bit but I could live with them. What do I know though as I'm still using the stock Mogami cable...

I guess I will have to try them again once I complete my HV although this will take some time. Apparently it's a big improvement from the normal version no? I've heard the O2 a couple of times already so I'm sure I got the fit right. The LCD2/3 seems to be a bit sensitive to this as well as vintage orthos like the RP18 and T50RP. I guess it's a planar thing!

2011 has been a really interesting audio journey for me. Like spritzer said, I got the LCD2 in the first place precisely because it's a mini-O2 but after hearing the HD800 for many, many times my opinions seems to change from an utter dislike to a new-found respect and ergo, I definitely want some aspects of them in my next upgrade. I also seem to develop a preference for a Lambda sound as opposed to the O2 house sound as IMHO, they are far more exciting-sounding despite the relative technical drawbacks. Well, 009 seems to fit the bills but I will never be sure until I've actually heard them and I fear that it has that symptomatic upper-midrange etch that most Lambdas seem to have.

[spritzer]

There are no etch issues with the 009 but it shares many of the Lambda traits. Another candidate would be the SR-X Mk3 Pro which is pretty much a properly done Grado so a bit bright and upfront.

.

The Norse 8 conductor cable is a noticeable improvement over the stock one.

I will never buy another cable so that's a no go and the only exception would be some Kimber Select stuff since it holds its value. The TCSS is too stiff for headphone cables though but I have a generous amount of mil-spec (made in 1957) silver wire courtesy of Kevin.

[purrin]

I noticed you put them up for sale. Are you just sticking with the hd800 or are you going to go stax?

I was trying to get away from STAX since I had sold my 009 a few months back. This is why hanging around you STAX maniacs is dangerous. Prolly gonna get an O2/007. I need a highly resolving more relaxed 'phone to pair with the HD800.

Edited April 1, 2012 by purrin

[deepak]

I was trying to get away from STAX since I had sold my 009 a few months back. This is why hanging around you STAX maniacs is dangerous. Prolly gonna get an O2/007. I need a highly resolving more relaxed 'phone to pair with the HD800.

Just wondering how you felt the 009 compared tonally with the HD800?

[purrin]

Just wondering how you felt the 009 compared tonally with the HD800?

The 009 is very neutral. None of that 6k "slap", pushed up treble, and slight warmth of the HD800.

Out of the right source and amp, the 009s can have some really nice bass. I think what was really eye opening for me was how much a chameleon the 009s were. A simple change in source transformed it from "thin sounding / limp-dick bass" to "lush with balls."

[n3rdling]

Hd800 is very off tonally, 009 is nearly perfect tonally

[K3cT]

Although the HD800 has grown with me lately, I can agree that the midrange tonality (vocal component) is a bit off. Very hard to describe but I'd say it's a bit brittle and thin sounding which lends to an unnatural slant.

@purrin

I honestly think you're not getting the best out of the LCD3 with the BA. I remain convinced that hi-current solid state is the way to go with this particular planar and If only I live stateside I would gladly send my β22 for you to take a prolonged listen.

@spritzer

That's good to hear. What source you're using with the 009? From various impressions around here, it seems a warmer, more forgiving DAC seems to be the way to go with these.

[spritzer]

My main source is a MSB DACIII Platinum with the standard modules but I have the same results even with the very warm AudioZone DAC-1.

[Torpedo]

Birgir, are you using the computer and USB or coaxial connection, or a CD transport? I ask this for the comments at the meetings forum and their experience there with the PWD and the ULN. And also for my own experience with the 009/717 combo using 3 different DACs and a transport. I wonder how much is the 717 warming up the sound, but I didn't find much of a tonal difference compared to the B22/SRD-7. In any case this must be more "colorful" than the KGSS/HV and T2 or BHSE.

[kevin gilmore]

At least for lcd2's i have not found a tube amp that makes them sound right.

Neither OTL or transformer amps sound right.

Well except for an atmasphere.

[spritzer]

I'm using the isolated USB connection most of the time. It's better than any transport I've tried recently but something like the ML31.5 might beat it.

[purrin]

Although the HD800 has grown with me lately, I can agree that the midrange tonality (vocal component) is a bit off. Very hard to describe but I'd say it's a bit brittle and thin sounding which lends to an unnatural slant.

@purrin

I honestly think you're not getting the best out of the LCD3 with the BA. I remain convinced that hi-current solid state is the way to go with this particular planar and If only I live stateside I would gladly send my β22 for you to take a prolonged listen.

I don't disagree. Even the lowly Objective2 chip-based amp did certain things better than the BA with the LCD3, so I have a good idea how they might sound on a dynamid or dynahi. Won't matter anyways as I don't plan on keeping the LCD3s for much longer. I was hoping to get some aspects of the 007 with the LCD3, but it's not close, especially after direct comparison.

Edited April 2, 2012 by purrin

[deepak]

At least for lcd2's i have not found a tube amp that makes them sound right.

Neither OTL or transformer amps sound right.

Well except for an atmasphere.

What is special about the Atmasphere amps? I have heard from a couple of DIY'ers that damping factor on some of their amps is high.

[spritzer]

They are basically circlotrons so the high impedance issue of tubes is tackled with multiple triodes in parallel so no output transformers or huge output caps..

[swt61]

At least for lcd2's i have not found a tube amp that makes them sound right.

Neither OTL or transformer amps sound right.

Well except for an atmasphere.

Agreed. I told Marc at CJ10 that they sounded best on SS amps.

[wink]

Maybe a transconductance amp is the way to go.....