New "unveiled" LCD3

[guzziguy]

A modified LCD3 sounded very good out of Frank Cooter's latest amp. Well, it was his latest amp at the time. He's probably torn it apart and built another gem by now.

[purk]

Hd800 is very off tonally, 009 is nearly perfect tonally

The SR009 is indeed near perfect having heard them from Chinsettawong's T2 system.

[Leonardo Drummond]

The 009 is very neutral. None of that 6k "slap", pushed up treble, and slight warmth of the HD800.

Out of the right source and amp, the 009s can have some really nice bass. I think what was really eye opening for me was how much a chameleon the 009s were. A simple change in source transformed it from "thin sounding / limp-dick bass" to "lush with balls."

Purrin, what were these sources?

[Tari]

I assume he is referring to the Amarra Model 4 vs PWD/Marantz mentioned

[Leonardo Drummond]

Oh, thanks Tari!

[morphsci]

......

@purrin

I honestly think you're not getting the best out of the LCD3 with the BA. I remain convinced that hi-current solid state is the way to go with this particular planar and If only I live stateside I would gladly send my β22 for you to take a prolonged listen.

....

At least for lcd2's i have not found a tube amp that makes them sound right.

Neither OTL or transformer amps sound right.

Well except for an atmasphere.

I don't disagree. Even the lowly Objective2 chip-based amp did certain things better than the BA with the LCD3, so I have a good idea how they might sound on a dynamid or dynahi. Won't matter anyways as I don't plan on keeping the LCD3s for much longer. I was hoping to get some aspects of the 007 with the LCD3, but it's not close, especially after direct comparison.

Agreed. I told Marc at CJ10 that they sounded best on SS amps.

Well I'm going to be the monkey-in-the-wrench on this one. I definitely preferred John's slutty LCD2s with a 307A based BA compared to a GSX.

[K.S.]

I prefered the lcd2r2 on the ba (at least with my setup) over any other amp combo that I tried them with. I would assume I should be able to get close to the same level of performance from the lcd3 since they are speced close.

[n3rdling]

I'm in the ss camp for orthos thus far. Preferred the dynahi to both the menace and ba with the lcd2.

[deepak]

They are basically circlotrons so the high impedance issue of tubes is tackled with multiple triodes in parallel so no output transformers or huge output caps..

Interesting, thank you. Looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me.

So was Ralph Karsten the first one to employ an OTL circlotron circuit commercially (he has it as a registered trademark)? I see that output transformers were used in circlotron designs in the 1950s.

I've always been interested in the Atma-Sphere amps after hearing the M60s.

[spritzer]

There were some other circlotrons but every one was a bit different. It's been a while since I read up one this but a lot has to do with the way feedback was handled. Some of the older amps would oscillate like mad...

[rhythmdevils]

I'm in the ss camp for orthos thus far. Preferred the dynahi to both the menace and ba with the lcd2.

What about the HE6? Don't people like powerful tube amps for them? That was my inclination for them.

And what about the Liquid Fire? Seems to be a good match for the Audeze from what I've read. (spare me the KG propaganda please)

Edited April 3, 2012 by rhythmdevils

[Tari]

The tubes in the LF are just for the voltage gain, I'm not sure if I would classify it as a tube amp (maybe tube hybrid.)

[monsieurguzel]

Interesting, thank you. Looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me.

So was Ralph Karsten the first one to employ an OTL circlotron circuit commercially (he has it as a registered trademark)? I see that output transformers were used in circlotron designs in the 1950s.

I've always been interested in the Atma-Sphere amps after hearing the M60s.

Yup Ralph's stuff is really awesome and he has an amazing support policy. He'll pretty much update your amp to the most recent standards even if it is over 20 years old! Name me another company that will do that for their products...

As of right now I have a pair of M-60s which I am completely in love with. Other than heat generated I couldn't really ask for more out of an amp since they've been trouble free for the past 1-2 years and they don't require any fancy tubes. I also used to have an MP-1 preamp which was pretty great but didn't really fit in my listening room too well. Plus it used a ridiculous amount of tubes (8 per channel) which made it a pain in the ass to troubleshoot where floor noise was coming from. I tried listening to a pair of HD650s balanced through this preamp and it wasn't anything mind blowing or remotely worth the cost for a headphone amp...but I'm not sure if it would be better with the LCD-3 as Kevin mentioned.

[The Monkey]

What about the HE6? Don't people like powerful tube amps for them? That was my inclination for them.

And what about the Liquid Fire? Seems to be a good match for the Audeze from what I've read. (spare me the KG propaganda please)

Because "from what I've read" means you're immune to propaganda?

[morphsci]

I heard that the liquid diarrhea makes the LCD2 sound exceptionally smoooooth.

[deepak]

Because "from what I've read" means you're immune to propaganda?

This statement is so accurate

[kevin gilmore]

The LF is a rip on a early 1980's design with the jfets replaced by tubes, and vertical mosfet outputs replaced

with standard international rectifier parts (now vishay). Not bad, not great either. Power supply limits current delivery

especially on inefficent headphones like he6's.

A single gain stage, no feedback design like some of the pass labs amps, or the circlotron it ain't.

A S-30 blows the crap out of a LF for about the same money, or less used (if you can find one)

and drives he6's or LCDX with true authority. And rise and fall times more than 50 times faster than the LF.

Edited April 3, 2012 by kevin gilmore

[monsieurguzel]

So you suggest driving them from the speaker taps then? The S-30 or M-60 for that matter don't have headphone outputs. I guess you'd do the volume control digitally through the DAC, but would there be way too much gain for the LCD2?

The LF is a rip on a early 1980's design with the jfets replaced by tubes, and vertical mosfet outputs replaced

with standard international rectifier parts (now vishay). Not bad, not great either. Power supply limits current delivery

especially on inefficent headphones like he6's.

A single gain stage, no feedback design like some of the pass labs amps, or the circlotron it ain't.

A S-30 blows the crap out of a LF for about the same money, or less used (if you can find one)

and drives he6's or LCDX with true authority. And rise and fall times more than 50 times faster than the LF.

[kevin gilmore]

Well I always use an analog preamp to do the volume.

And I don't think there is too much gain.

The schist amp has the same amount of gain

Never liked digitally done volume

Edited April 3, 2012 by kevin gilmore

[n3rdling]

What about the HE6? Don't people like powerful tube amps for them? That was my inclination for them.

And what about the Liquid Fire? Seems to be a good match for the Audeze from what I've read. (spare me the KG propaganda please)

I don't really know what people tend to like with the HE6 since I don't read those threads, but I liked it from a couple vintage SS receivers I've heard it from. I'd probably use a SS amp over a tube amp with it if I owned it but who knows.

I've never heard the LF. It was across the room from me at the last NorCal meet but I forgot to give it a listen.

[monsieurguzel]

Thanks for the tip Kevin, I might eventually get around to buying a used pair of LCD2s to try that out some day.

Btw, speaking of Cyclotron amps, have you seen the new Schiit balanced amp? There's a mention of a Cyclotron-esque circuit but not sure if its the same prinicpal as the Atmasphere amps but with solid state.

https://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=10

Well I always use an analog preamp to do the volume.

And I don't think there is too much gain.

The schist amp has the same amount of gain

Never liked digitally done volume

[kevin gilmore]

I'm aware of the new schiit amp, and I think it's a great idea and a great price.

No one has done a circlotron amp for headphones before.

Jason was an engineer at sumo when bongiorno did the patent on the solid state

Circlotron. (sumo 9) so you can safely assume that this amp is going to be similar

I'll add the patent number later

Edited April 3, 2012 by kevin gilmore

[swt61]

What about the HE6? Don't people like powerful tube amps for them? That was my inclination for them.

And what about the Liquid Fire? Seems to be a good match for the Audeze from what I've read. (spare me the KG propaganda please)

I didn't care for the LCD-2/Liquid Fire combination. The LCD-2/PASS F5 was very nice IMO.

[Beefy]

I'm aware of the new schiit amp, and I think it's a great idea and a great price.

No one has done a circlotron amp for headphones before.

Interesting. I'm so glad these guys went over and above their initial gimmick.

[kevin gilmore]

us patent number 4229706

if you read the schiit material carefully you may notice that

it says dc coupled input, and dc coupled output. Which means

that like the atmasphere, there are capacitors between the

voltage gain stage, and the output stage, which can be really

good caps because they work at low voltages, and into high

impedances.

Here is the original sumo9 schematic for you to scratch your heads at.

http://gilmore.chem....n.edu/sumo9.pdf

pretty sure the approval signature is JS.

Edited April 4, 2012 by kevin gilmore