Voltron Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 What about inventory, receivables, machinery, trademarks, etc.? $1.5 million don't cut it even if they have big debt.
visualguy Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 What about inventory, receivables, machinery, trademarks, etc.? $1.5 million don't cut it even if they have big debt. It is strange - Stax's situation must have been much worse than most of us imagined... They must have been desperate if they indeed took a deal like this.
ujamerstand Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 Wait, Edifier? I had their speaker set. They sound like shit.
Spychedelic Whale Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 How bad could it be to allow them to do research and still release a 4,5k headphone ? Something fishy here.
justin Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 How bad could it be to allow them to do research and still release a 4,5k headphone ? Something fishy here. hopefully Tyll could comment
The Monkey Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 The only possible way the 1.5MM is correct if this is a full acquisition is if they took on some massive amount of debt, too.
guzziguy Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) I guess that the Stax Mafia is now the Stax Tong. I think people at the other forum are overreacting That's what the other forum is all about. Edited December 9, 2011 by guzziguy
Leonardo Drummond Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 I guess that the Stax Mafia is now the Stax Tong. That's what the other forum is all about. There's a good point All this did make me reconsider my R10 goal, though... I think I'm still going for it, but now I'm considering 009s as an alternative.
Grahame Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Stax Yakuza (ヤクザ or やくざ ). Time for some Yubitsume Why else all the interest in those sharp knives? Edited December 10, 2011 by Grahame
ujamerstand Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Here's the actual transaction document. pdf Important bits: 主要财务数据： (Stax Ltd. Financial Figures) 单位：人民币万元 项目名称 2008 年 2009 年 2010 年 2011年1-10月 营业收入 1982.1 1924.03 1470.33 1666.65 毛利润 591.7 494.25 210.77 546.76 营业利润 136.28 38.83 -258.24 235.2 净利润 114.63 34.14 -219.32 236.99 资产总额 948.37 1181.44 802.1 1105.97 应收帐款 223.86 310.8 207.73 196.93 负债总额 419.41 623.23 468.08 536.42 所有者权益 528.97 558.22 334.02 569.55 Total debt in bold. Multiply the numbers by 10000 to get $$ in RMB. Also, the document states that the company will be transferred over by March 31, 2012. Edited December 9, 2011 by ujamerstand
ujamerstand Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 This is what Edifier plan on doing with stax. 本次投资是公司发展主营业务，尤其是耳机业务的关键性投资。通过收购目黑阳造先生所持有的STAX的100％股权，公司立即拥有了全球著名的静电耳机及其功放的所有设计、制造技术和相应市场，公司得以迅速占领高端耳机的制高点，使公司能够向耳机行业的高端品牌发起挑战。 公司还将利用自身现有的制造能力，大力降低静电耳机的制造成本，同时利用自身渠道大力推进相关产品的销售，使得所有消费者都有机会感受到这种高性能产品，努力使得产品售价为更多的消费者所接受。 公司还计划推出基于静电技术的新品牌，以便携式的静电耳机产品为主打，进一步拉低售价门槛，起到承上启下的重要作用。 因此，本次收购不仅可以获得财务收益，更使得公司拥有了耳机行业内的高端技术，结合公司自身现有的优势，不但可以使STAX品牌长足发展，更使公司得相关业务得到一个关键立足点，为未来的大幅发展奠定了坚实的基础。 They wanted Stax's electrostatic headphones technology to go into high end headphones production. They also wanted to use their current production capabilities to reduce production cost, meaning that the production will likely move to China in the future. They also plan on increase marketing electrostatic headphones to the public. It also looks like they want to produce portable electrostatic headpones....
The Monkey Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 Here's the actual transaction document. pdf Important bits: 主要财务数据： (Stax Ltd. Financial Figures) 单位：人民币万元 项目名称 2008 年 2009 年 2010 年 2011年1-10月 营业收入 1982.1 1924.03 1470.33 1666.65 毛利润 591.7 494.25 210.77 546.76 营业利润 136.28 38.83 -258.24 235.2 净利润 114.63 34.14 -219.32 236.99 资产总额 948.37 1181.44 802.1 1105.97 应收帐款 223.86 310.8 207.73 196.93 负债总额 419.41 623.23 468.08 536.42 所有者权益 528.97 558.22 334.02 569.55 Total debt in bold. Multiply the numbers by 10000 to get $$ in RMB. Also, the document states that the company will be transferred over by March 31, 2012. Thanks for the info. What's that debt in USD?
ujamerstand Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 about 843,000 USD. Honestly, I'm not too happy with Edifier's speaker qualities. It's not very solid. I can only hope that they improve their production quality when they start manufacturing electostatic headphones.
Augsburger Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 536.42= $846,488. So either I read you wrong or the conversion factor is wrong. Either way I would think more stax cans might create more opportunities for Justin and his BH and BH lite. That is assuming the new Stax company dosen't flood the market with a line of new stax amps.
visualguy Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 Less than $1M in liabilities... Their annual income was not far from $3M, and they are profitable. A $1.5M sale price is certainly low based on the numbers in that table - they sold for not much more than assets minus liabilities plus one year's profit. Again, weird that they took this deal... It basically values their intellectual property and brand value at zero, and has the implicit assumption that their business was going to tank soon.
ujamerstand Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 the unit was in 万, so 10,000 RMB. This is why they were purchased for 1.5M 本次股权受让价格是在对Pinnacle会社出具的《STAX有限会社股票估值分析报告书》基础上，并根据Zecoo会社对STAX的财务尽职调查结果对《STAX有限会社股票估值分析报告书》进行了修正，主要是折现率的上限（7.1%）作为基准折现率，并上下浮动0.5%进行敏感性分析，采取折现现金流（预计的未来经营现金流）DCF的办法估算STAX的价值。公司采取的DCF模型中，永久增长率分别为-0.5%、0.0%、0.5%的情况下，折现率在6.6%~7.6%的范围内进行的谨慎估值区间为（8,560万日元~11,260万日元），同时综合考虑STAX的技术优势和对本公司耳机产品的提升等因素，经与原股东协商确定最后交易价格为1.2亿日元 Too much financial mumble jumble in there for me to translate...
blessingx Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 This doesn't have anything to do with Sujata "Sue" Sachdeva again does it?
catscratch Posted December 9, 2011 Report Posted December 9, 2011 This is not encouraging. But maybe if Stax does tank it will create a vacuum for other manufacturers to put electrostatics out there. Though more likely it will show everyone that making top-end electrostatics is not financially viable. Either way, I think I may get the 009 just a little bit sooner. And maybe some spare drivers too.
acidbasement Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) If I had the cash, I'd probably be thinking that this is the time to get a few toppish-tier Stax, before the market value of made-in-Japan models shoots through the roof, like Orpheus, K1000, etc. Call it an enjoyable investment. Since I don't have the cash, I lament the fact that my likelihood of even getting to hear one of their top-tier cans may have gone down several notches. Edited December 10, 2011 by acidbasement
The Monkey Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 This doesn't have anything to do with Sujata "Sue" Sachdeva again does it? She provided the financing. Is that a problem?
The Monkey Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 How does a company not sell for at least 2x - 3x with positive earnings? I really think we're missing some important facts here.
Aimless1 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 The numbers make no sense. I absolutely agree with Dinny that we're missing something or the purchase price/debt was not reported correctly.
Augsburger Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Tax avoidance management ? Something important was definitely left out of that news release. Perhaps patents, IP or assets were not included in the sale but the article assumed they were included.
ujamerstand Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Indeed. After reading that paragraph for a while, the official reason was that stax had almost 0% predicted growth rate and discount rate being around 6.6%~7.6%. Of course, god knows what kind of deal was struck under the table.
justin Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 i think a lot of these companies end up in a 3-5 million annual revenue area, with no growth, and having to support a full management staff and all the crap that goes with being large enough to be a 'real' business. i guess it's hard to break out of that without going Monster/Skullcandy on your product line 1
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