Liquid Lightning

[The Monkey]

The crap taste comment is just pathetic.

Do you really think you and Kevin are the only intelligent people in headphone-dom? Cavalli has not only designed a whole line up of amps, he's given them away for free. Excuse me, but where's the Spritzer line of amps? At worst NoNoNoNoNoNo is a fanboy who likes being at the center of something new and exciting. You may disapprove but that's neither illegal nor immoral.

The real crime here isn't anything Cavalli has done, but what you're doing right now- you're the one with an agenda. Someone expresses an opinion that goes against what you want people to think and you start trashing them. It's straight propaganda and it's pretty clear that's what you're doing to Cavalli. He's the competition to your beloved Gilmore, so you've got to get all your little minions to hate his amps. It makes me sick that so few people here seem to be able to stand up to this hateful bullshit.

Take a deep breath. It's all going to be ok.

[guzziguy]

The crap taste comment is just pathetic.

I agree, but it's no worse than your "apologists" comment.

Do you really think you and Kevin are the only intelligent people in headphone-dom? Cavalli has not only designed a whole line up of amps, he's given them away for free. Excuse me, but where's the Spritzer line of amps? At worst NoNoNoNoNoNo is a fanboy who likes being at the center of something new and exciting. You may disapprove but that's neither illegal nor immoral.

The real crime here isn't anything Cavalli has done, but what you're doing right now- you're the one with an agenda. Someone expresses an opinion that goes against what you want people to think and you start trashing them. It's straight propaganda and it's pretty clear that's what you're doing to Cavalli. He's the competition to your beloved Gilmore, so you've got to get all your little minions to hate his amps. It makes me sick that so few people here seem to be able to stand up to this hateful bullshit.

I think that you need to get some of your facts straight. Kevin doesn't produce or sell amps or designs. I haven't counted, but I would bet that Kevin has put more designs in the public domain (i.e. free) that Alex has. This is not to denigrate Alex, it's just so you understand what Kevin is about and what he does.

[recstar24]

Take a deep breath. It's all going to be ok.

Yah. No need for the conspiracy theories, but in our post singlepower world people are just trying to ensure that others don't get burned. I truly believe there is no evil agenda on birgir's part and that he genuinely is trying to be informative and educational on not only the design, but some of the business practices associated with cavalli. I am sure whatever issues exist are being communicated and hopefully resolved between Headfi moderation and cavallis associates.

[grawk]

plus, when you associate your company with a psychopath, people infer that it's intentional.

[Spychedelic Whale]

What has he done besides being cavally promoter ? I'm not trying to defend him, I really don't know.

[rhythmdevils]

I agree, but it's no worse than your "apologists" comment.

I think that you need to get some of your facts straight. Kevin doesn't produce or sell amps or designs. I haven't counted, but I would bet that Kevin has put more designs in the public domain (i.e. free) that Alex has. This is not to denigrate Alex, it's just so you understand what Kevin is about and what he does.

The "apologists" comment was in reference to what Deepak said about masking crappy digital sources, it wasn't an insult to you analytical listeners

I wasn't talking about Kevin. To be clear again, I have no problem with him or his amps (not that he would care if I did), there's a difference between a crap amp and an amp that doesn't line up with my preferences and I'm saying the latter. I've enjoyed my limited time with the BHSE. The only reason I brought up my impression of the Gilmore dynamics I've heard was to counter the perfect sine wave circle jerk that seems to be happening here and share an impression that does not match the one that's being shoved down everyone's throats. I do not think the Gilmore amps are the ideal that everyone should strive for. And I do not think they are neutral. And I prefer my much cheaper Cavalli amp.

I don't think it's evil either. I don't know Cavalli, maybe Spritz is right, but I still think this is premature and is turning into a witch hunt.

Also, NoNoNoNoNoNo isn't a psychopath that's absurd. If you met him in person you'd probably have a great time.

edit: I wasn't planning on writing a thesis here, maybe I ought to just let you guys have your bar fun? I'm happy to do so I've got good headphones waiting for me...

Edited December 21, 2011 by rhythmdevils

[grawk]

Most psychopaths are absolutely a joy to be around. Until they decide to turn on you.

[morphsci]

I think sociopath is a more correct term.

[grawk]

Sure, but it's less inflammatory, and they're synonyms.

[jvlgato]

Most psychopaths are absolutely a joy to be around. Until they decide to turn on you.

Truth.

I think sociopath is a more correct term.

Sure, but it's less inflammatory, and they're synonyms.

psychopath is an old term, but still in popular use. The current official term is 'Antisocial Personality Disorder'. But that's a mouthful, so the word in popular use is sociopath. Psychopath is still in common use, but an older term.

I've met a couple. They are very charming and likeable, and popular, for a while, then bad things start happening, people around him start fighting, and all hell breaks loose. Someone gets hurt, and the person vanishes or is kicked out. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

Edited December 21, 2011 by jvlgato

[grawk]

it was sooner here thankfully

[dBel84]

Time to clarify a few things again.

Based on several comments it is clear to me that there are many poorly understood / misconceived ideas.

1. Cavalli's NDA

- back in November 2010, several people who had been involved in various prototyping efforts with Cavalli signed an NDA +

- this document not only limited our discussion of the design elements of Cavalli Audio but also restricted the use of the builds for personal use only. Never to be sold, not to be used to promote Cavalli Audio and to remain the property of Cavalli Audio where Alex had the right to request we send him completed amps should he deem it necessary.

I hope that closes the argument that Cavalli was providing "DIY" boards to some people for the purposes of shilling or possible sale for profit. In most cases I even etched my own prototype boards.

2. My role in Cavalli Audio - this subject is bound to rear itself again and I do not want to be held ransom. I had stated earlier that Alex had approached me to be a part of Cavalli Audio. Some of you may know that I am a pediatric medical geneticist, some not. It is not really relevant other than to say that my professional life is fairly full and I have a family to balance along the way. I was thus unable to commit to his offer but have always helped him where I can and at this time ( for the past 2 -3 weeks, as Brian Kurtz is stepping out), I am helping him field e-mail queries regarding the amplifiers as I have the technical knowledge of the circuit and I enjoy the communication. It is not a chore and my reward is knowing that I have helped a friend try and make a success of something that is dear to him. I did not announce myself as an MOT as I did not consider myself as such but I did send Jude a pm regarding this matter and was happy to oblige whatever he decided it should be. I am not a shill for Cavalli, I do like his amps, always have. This does not mean that I do not like any other amps. I am not particularly fond of Woo as they sound too "tubey" for me , I really liked the Pico but it doesn't like orthos very much. I have only ever heard the G-lite and that would not be a fair evaluation of KG's amps. I did try and build a dynalo way back when but that power supply was not much fun and I gave up. I won't list the amps that I do like but I can assure you there are many and they originate from the normal contenders, DocB, Millet, Uthus ..... If you need even further transparency, I signed an NDA with Audeze way back too , I was never actually involved in any of the development and did not benefit from this financially but when we initially communicated , they were interested in exploring different ideas. Hell, before that I even offered Fang free advice to sort his first ortho as I didn't care who was doing it, I just knew how to fix it.

3. Cavalli's clandetsine development .......

Marc mentioned ( iirc ) a few pages ago "remember digi" . I know I have told this story to a few people who have asked over the years but perhaps it is time for all to hear it publicly.

Digi01 was a member of the forums on Headwize. When Alex, Mark and Bill ( runeight , mains_hum & batman) developed the SOHA , digi hijacked the process and started producing boards for sale through his website. The initial design was meant to be modular so that it could be "upgraded" as builder expertise improved. ie started off as a low voltage hybrid with an opamp on the output. Upgrade psu, change out output buffer and you have a very different amp = you get the picture. Well the process was interrupted when digi arrived offering boards. The team ( CLP ) were not happy about the change in direction but worked with digi to make boards that would work and this became the SOHA , but it left an aftermath and the overall experience was not pleasant.

If the story ended there it would have been a nonentity. When Cavalli and Tom (snoopy) started to finalize the work on the embedded hybrid, digi reappeared and simply stated that he would be making boards available. The animosity at that point was high and I mediated an agreement between Alex and Digi which allowed the design process to be completed and digi supplied the first batch of boards to Jeff Rossell who was going to be selling the kits.

It was this ineterruption of the design process and threat of an incomplete product release that drove Alex to move further project development off of the public forums. It appeared as though he was excluding most of the collective inteligence which is the power of open source design. Alex knew this and he mentioned his discontent on more than one occassion to me but he strongly suspected that digi would repeat this behaviour again. Funny thing is that it didn't matter who supplied boards , if digi had just waited for the process to be complete or offering to supply pcb's at the end of the design, it might have worked out for all.

A quick search found this EHHA layout , I do not have the url for his project site and really can't be bothered searching for it but it is proof enough that what I say is true.

I can assure you that there was no "cloak and dagger" operation, and it was truly unfortunate that it went that way.

4. Abe was a clever man when he said " You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Pete is quite right of course when he said that a 6922 should never be operated below 70volts on the plate, in fact 90-100 is optimal for this tube to keep it operating in a linear fashion. Alex knows this and that is why he designed the EHHA around the 6GM8 which is a military spec space charge tube developed for field radio communication. It operates at 27-30V on the plates and has surprisingly good specs. People use 6922 tubes in the amp because they "work" but the kit is sold with a pair of 6GM8 because this is the design. Many people forget that tube amps are generally designed to operate optimally with a single tube type ( in a specified position ). We all love tube rolling and thus many circuits are a little lax to enable a reasonable range of good operating points for several tube types. BUT you will hear some designers say that it is better to optimise a circuit for a single tube as you will then get the most out of that tube. This is what Alex achieved with the LF - it runs dual rails for this purpose : quote from LF webpage "Separate HV and LV Regulated Rails for the Tubes and Transistors" . I am familiar with the LF schematic and I can assure you that it is not an EHHA. The tubes operate at an optimal 90-100V , it has a relatively low gain and thus limited feedback. This has been posted previously by Alex and thus I am not revealing any trade secrets here.

Thanks to the voices of reason. I will most likely not post on this matter again, it is getting late and I have probably said more than I intended

..dB

Edited December 21, 2011 by dBel84

[Tyll Hertsens]

Thanks for taking the time, Don.

[n_maher]

Thanks for taking the time, Don.

x2

[swt61]

Firstly rythmdevils, I'd ask that you not lump us all into one. You know better than that. Yes people here tend to favor similar things, but that's far more about the size and closeness of this community, as opposed to the masses at the other place.

Also, Ryan hit the nail on the head when he talked about post SP. We're all concerned about keeping each other informed, but we would like to impart the most accurate information possible. I have no knowledge of what the illegal dealings may be, but I doubt that Birgir would fabricate this. Whether I'll deem it as important as he does remains to be seen, and we all reserve the right to decide for ourselves. Very few here play follow the leader, as you suggest, at least not blindly.

I do find some odd displays of character concerning Alex, and from that I do tend to infer things. That's got more to do with my Psych classes in college than any conspiracy. However I'm not making any rash decisions about the man until solid evidence is shown against him.

Also, NoNoNoNoNoNo isn't a psychopath that's absurd. If you met him in person you'd probably have a great time.

As for NoNoNoNoNoNo, that is the fucking definition of a psychopath! Ted Bundy was a fun guy too.

I have personally been burned by the little fuck, and I have every fucking right to alert everyone here of his character. Sadly it doesn't need to be done, as it's all too obvious here. I'm sure he can be quite charming in person. I've met plenty of assholes that are.

My biggest concern about Alex is his relationship with NoNoNoNoNoNo, as it's no secret that he's fucked over several people in the community. Does he, or does he not understand this?

As for Don, I have the utmost respect, and his words do not go unheard.

Edited December 21, 2011 by swt61

[Beefy]

I do find some odd displays of character concerning Alex, and from that I do tend to infer things. That's got more to do with my Psych classes in college than any conspiracy. However I'm not making any rash decisions about the man until solid evidence is shown against him.

While I've never had any direct problems with Alex, there definitely has always been an uneasy controversy surrounding him. The SOHA boards issue, Exstata design issues, absolutely rabid fanboidom from pabbi and NoNoNoNoNoNo, etc. Psych classes aside, it is hard not to infer things from all of this......

I patiently await evidence one way or the other. But then again, its just headphones, and its just a hobby.

*Goes looking for my bottle of chill pills*

Edited December 21, 2011 by Beefy

[anetode]

Kevin doesn't produce or sell amps or designs. I haven't counted, but I would bet that Kevin has put more designs in the public domain (i.e. free) that Alex has. This is not to denigrate Alex, it's just so you understand what Kevin is about and what he does.

Sorry for the tangent, but I'm a huge free content whore and was wondering whether this was technically correct. Are the designs explicitly released into the public domain, or does Gilmore license them out?

Edited December 22, 2011 by anetode

[livewire]

I have no idea what his relationship with companies like HeadAmp are. Really isnt none of my business.

I do know for a fact that the bulk of his designs are in the public domain, including the newer ones such as the KGSSHV and the DIY T2.

[dsavitsk]

Sorry for the tangent, but I'm a huge free content whore and was wondering whether this was technically correct. Are the designs explicitly released into the public domain, or does Gilmore license them out?

There's no IP protection for circuit designs unless they are patented. PCB layout and schematic art is protected by copyright, but otherwise, all the "For DIY use only" scribbling on schematics is nonsense.

[anetode]

Ah, thank you. There's an odd incongruity here: if you take the copyrighted PCB layout or schematic art and make boards using them, aren't you producing a derivative work (which would then fall under the original copyright)?

[kevin gilmore]

Sorry for the tangent, but I'm a huge free content whore and was wondering whether this was technically correct. Are the designs explicitly released into the public domain, or does Gilmore license them out?

Other than the T2 which is a special case, i publish the schematics and i give away board layouts that i have done.

Anyone can take the schematics and produce their own boards if they want to and sell them as boards, kits, or completed units.

And even the layouts i have done.

I do however like to know whats going on, and kept in the loop. This is to try and avoid another trevornetwork

superglue and plexiglass incident.

The T2 is strictly non-commercial use only. Although the board files and schematics are available to anyone.

No one with half a brain should consider building and selling T2's commercially.

The north central Illinois Head Case Legal Group (that would be doug) has a significant amount of information on "FAIR USE"

This would even include releasing for example a SACD DAC that takes an un-encrypted stream, with the information

on how to modify specific players to generate such stream. However SONY et all won't pay attention to any of that

and will sue your ass into the ground anyway.

If you exactly copy a copyrighted circuit board layout without permission, you are violating copyright law.

If you take the same exact circuit and do your own board layout, and it is not "familiar" to the other copyrighted

design then its legal.

Fact is that the LF schematic if you replace the tubes with a pair of jfets and a current source, looks absolutely

identical to stuff seen in the late 1970's. So take a $50 circuit, put in a pair of tubes to make it look purdy,

slap it in a box with glass windows, and abracadabra $3200 amplifer. Alex would not be the first to do

this. He won't be the last either. Never mind what the distortion characteristics, or any reasonable specifications

might be.

Edited December 22, 2011 by kevin gilmore

[luvdunhill]

There's no IP protection for circuit designs unless they are patented. PCB layout and schematic art is protected by copyright, but otherwise, all the "For DIY use only" scribbling on schematics is nonsense.

It seems that rapid fanboy lynch mobs are somewhat effective, at for example getting EBay to unlist many of Nelson Pass' projects..

[swt61]

rapid fanboy lynch mobs...

So these are the really fast lynch mobs, as opposed to the foaming at the mouth ones?

[Pars]

The only reason I brought up my impression of the Gilmore dynamics I've heard was to counter the perfect sine wave circle jerk that seems to be happening here and share an impression that does not match the one that's being shoved down everyone's throats. I do not think the Gilmore amps are the ideal that everyone should strive for. And I do not think they are neutral. And I prefer my much cheaper Cavalli amp.

From my perspective, having built both a Dynalo and a Dynahi, I don't know how you could get much more neutral than one of these. Differential FET input stage (using the default K389/J109s that everyone uses such as Pass, John Curl, etc.), and VAS and output stages uses very linear BJTs, with DC coupling (no signal caps to voice the sound), I just don't see anything being much more linear (and therefore neutral) than that.

If you like the Cavalli amp better, then great.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Pars

[deepak]

From my perspective, having built both a Dynalo and a Dynahi, I don't know how you could get much more neutral than one of these. Differential FET input stage (using the default K389/J109s that everyone uses such as Pass, John Curl, etc.), and VAS and output stages uses very linear BJTs, with DC coupling (no signal caps to voice the sound), I just don't see anything being much more linear (and therefore neutral) than that.

If you like the Cavalli amp better, then great.

Vladimir Lamm says DC coupled amps suck