Liquid Lightning

[johnwmclean]

I don’t see one iota of evidence for the claims being made. Are only a certain few privileged?

[guzziguy]

Why be passive-aggressive? Just ask him nicely and directly to provide evidence. Otherwise ask him to not make claims until he is willing to provide such evidence.

Birgir, just a word of advice. I also suggest that you withhold making any claims about misbehavior regarding Cavalli until you are willing to back them up with evidence. It sounds like the evidence is coming soon, so just wait until them to say anything else.

[johnwmclean]

Why be passive-aggressive? Just ask him nicely and directly to provide evidence. Otherwise ask him to not make claims until he is willing to provide such evidence.

I wasn't addressing Birgir solely. Others disapprove the claims made about Don without mentioning the attack against Alex.

[spritzer]

We do have evidence to back all of this up but making it public isn't up to me. There is still a desire to just make the shilling and backhand deals stop and leave it at that so we'll see how it plays out.

[rhythmdevils]

Spritzer as far as I can tell what you're doing here is far more questionable than anything I've seen from Cavalli or anyone who knows him.

As far as SQ goes, I'd take any Cavalli amp over any Gilmore amp any day. (dynamics, I haven't compared the stat amps much) Heck, I'd take my SOHA1 over a Gilmore GS1. They're not bad amps, but every Gilmore I've heard sounded sterile and cold and the only time they've sounded listenable was with incredibly lush headphones. And at the same time, I don't need to trash the guy behind the amp. I can have respect for Kevin Gilmore, which I do, and personally dislike his amps. That doesn't seem to be the case with some people here for whatever reason. I guess it's cool on head-case to talk trash.

Also I must say that I have a lot of trust and respect for Don. I think he's one of the rare people here who makes headphones into what I would actually consider a hobby. I don't think this is a hobby for most people here because buying stuff isn't a hobby it's just buying stuff. But it is a hobby for someone like Don. He's spent a lot of time fixing up vintage orthos for people for nothing more than to know there is another functioning ortho in the world.

Edited December 19, 2011 by rhythmdevils

[rhythmdevils]

.....

Edited December 19, 2011 by rhythmdevils

[guzziguy]

I wasn't addressing Birgir solely. Others disapprove the claims made about Don without mentioning the attack against Alex.

Then you might want address those people by name. What are you trying to accomplish? I honestly can not tell from your posts. If it's just to show your indignation, you have succeeded, though poorly. Passive-aggressiveness rarely achieves ones goal. If it's something else, I suggest you try a direct approach.

We do have evidence to back all of this up but making it public isn't up to me. There is still a desire to just make the shilling and backhand deals stop and leave it at that so we'll see how it plays out.

I understand. However, without the evidence, the claims have no value and won't stop the shilling and backhand deals. Start again when you and the others are willing to present the evidence.

[deepak]

Spritzer as far as I can tell what you're doing here is far more questionable than anything I've seen from Cavalli or anyone who knows him.

As far as SQ goes, I'd take any Cavalli amp over any Gilmore amp any day. (dynamics, I haven't compared the stat amps much) Heck, I'd take my SOHA1 over a Gilmore GS1. They're not bad amps, but every Gilmore I've heard sounded sterile and cold and the only time they've sounded listenable was with incredibly lush headphones. And at the same time, I don't need to trash the guy behind the amp. I can have respect for Kevin Gilmore, which I do, and personally dislike his amps. That doesn't seem to be the case with some people here for whatever reason. I guess it's cool on head-case to talk trash.

Also I must say that I have a lot of trust and respect for Don. I think he's one of the rare people here who makes headphones into what I would actually consider a hobby. I don't think this is a hobby for most people here because buying stuff isn't a hobby it's just buying stuff. But it is a hobby for someone like Don. He's spent a lot of time fixing up vintage orthos for people for nothing more than to know there is another functioning ortho in the world.

Mind telling us what sources you used? Because the more I've upgraded my source the better my G. Lite, balanced Dynahi and Blue Hawaii have sounded. I don't think KG's amps have a sound. I'd say there are about 3 or 4 people on Head-Case I can align my tastes in gear quite strongly with and most of them run or ran Gilmore designed amps.

The one EHHA I heard had a ton of bass, distorted midrange and muted treble (the apologists would probably call this "shelved")... probably what sounds good with a crappy digital source.

[johnwmclean]

Then you might want address those people by name. What are you trying to accomplish? I honestly can not tell from your posts. If it's just to show your indignation, you have succeeded, though poorly. Passive-aggressiveness rarely achieves ones goal. If it's something else, I suggest you try a direct approach.

My emotions have got the better of me, you make a valid point.

[rhythmdevils]

That impression has been formed after numerous auditions at meets with high end sources (I've heard the GS1 a number of times at meets setup as end game rigs by trusted head-fiers back in the day) and from having the G lite in my home a few times. I currently have a Gamma2 which you can laugh at, but it doesn't change my impression of the Gilmore amps. Again, I'm not saying they are bad but I wanted to express the fact that some people like Cavalli's amps more than Gilmore's despite whatever numbers and BS propaganda is thrown around. You can say I have crap ears, but that hasn't been my experience. I'd love to change my mind though, this has inspired me to have a more thorough shootout with CEE TEE between his Glite and my SOHA.

The GS1 was my second favorite amp with my HP3000 because the HP3000 was overly lush. The only amp I liked better was a PPA because it had a very analytical opamp installed that had even better synergy with the HP3k. Can't remember the name of the opamp, but anyone who's built one would know (AD85...?). My point is that the HP3k were colored and needed an opposite colored amp to bring them back from the dark side.

Your description of the EHHA does not match my impression. The good one (BK8569er's) I heard was fast, linear and detailed and if anything lacked impact. I think the apologists would call the Gilmore amps "revealing".

Edited December 19, 2011 by rhythmdevils

[spritzer]

I don't think you have bad ears, just crap taste. Even mild mannered people like "DannyB" openly joke about just how bad the Cavalli amps are. He naturally doesn't name them but it is quite clear what he's referring to. Now neutrality isn't for everyone but I do think that it is something designers should aspire to while working within the confines of the chosen topology. Running tubes way below recommended voltages, starving stages of current and then throwing bunch of feedback at the mess to try and get it to behave isn't a good way to go at it in my book.

[recstar24]

I haven't heard the cavalli stuff but I cannot agree with the gs1 being an overly bright amp or analytical. To this day still one of the best solid states I've listened too, a close second to my dsha1 for sure.

[swt61]

One of my favorites as well. Maybe a 1/2 rung below my Beta22. I've not listened to a KG design that I didn't like. Same goes for Pete Millet.

[n3rdling]

Also big on the kg and millett amps

[livewire]

QUOTE: "Also big on the kg and millett amps"

Me three, I've built both.

I have to say that KG's "wire with gain" designs are the cleanest sound I have ever heard.

"Sterile?" Maybe, I prefer that to polluted / distorted sound.

Another plug for the GL here, after owning (and selling) around five chinese SS amps,

I thought I'd try the diminutive Gilmore Lite after reading up on it at the other place.

Yeah, it's "old news" by today's standard, though the core design still prevails.

I am amazed at the clarity this little box renders. It's a keeper.

I've quit searching for a head-amp in the dynamic domain. The Lite is it.

Edited December 20, 2011 by livewire

[kevin gilmore]

It should be noted that pete while not mentioning names specifically says that you need

at least 70 volts on 6922's to get them to operate in a very linear region. 30 volts just

does not cut it and requires much more feedback. Its tricky to make fully dc coupled

dynamic amps with the input tube at 70+ volts. Something alex has not figured out

yet. I suggest that alex look at the T2 schematic for some inspiration.

Edited December 20, 2011 by kevin gilmore

[Voltron]

Biggie, you don't need to say Whitney has crap taste. Just like I don't think you should accuse Don of knowing some illicit behavior is going on just because he has a friendship and prototyping/building relationship to Cavalli. It simply isn't necessary. Both of them are good guys with good intentions, and you don't need to denigrate them to make a point about Cavalli.

Also, I don't think that I have crap ears or crap taste, but I have always thought the G-Lite and GS1 were somewhat thin (Lite esp.) and so neutral/flat that they were on the sterile side. I feel the same way about the B22 being too flat. I obviously love the BH/BHSE/T2 range, and think the KGSS is very solid upon limited listening. I also like Pete Millett amps and those are pretty neutral/flat as a rule.

One thing I have hardly ever heard is Cavalli's stuff. I would be hard pressed to recall a single moment listening to any Cavalli amp besides JP's Exstata, so I have little to say about how his amps sound. I thought the Exstata was pretty weak overall, it certainly had a lot of problems, and it was easily bested by the BHse and WES that were in the same room at the time. Quite apart from how the amps sound, if they are shoddily built or wracked with problems, then people should speak up. But not everyone will dismiss an amp that they think sounds good just because of build quality and fewer still just because the design is flawed from the perspective of you or anyone else who knows what they are talking about.

Still, from what I have heard I don't like Cavalli's secretive development practices (since the Exstata release, if not before), and I don't like the idea that he is using or allowing shilling to happen. But Don says that NoNoNoNoNoNo is precluded from selling any LF/LL amps, so would that change your thoughts at all? What if NoNoNoNoNoNo is just an over-zealous fanboy who wants to promote something he likes? If it is more than that, like others have said I think that information should be disclosed because the lack of it undermines your position and can make it look like you are trying to bully Cavalli into something by making threats. I understand that you have said you would prefer that things change without having to go so far as disclosure, but it can still leave the same impression of bullying. And I know you have good intentions for the community at large and no financial or other interests.

Finally, I am not sure what behavior you or others think is "criminal" and what law you are referring to. I am not aware of laws preventing people from promoting their goods even by compensating "spokespeople." For your sake and the sake of this site, I think we should avoid making accusations of criminal conduct unless someone has been specifically defrauded, like the case of SinglePower.

[ktm]

I've got a Exstata hybrid I rotate in and out of my system. Sound? Pretty good with sr202's. The tubes seem to mix well with the Lambda

series. I have a re-capped srm1 MKII that also sounds good, but different. The mid range is more pronounced with the Stax amp.

The power supply worries me in the Exstata, and and some point I need to build a bit more robust one from other designs.

I have heard KGSS and BH at meets and certainly could find no fault with them other than cost, and if I ever get around to

DIYing one, finding parts is a chore.

As fun as it is to throw rocks, I am content to just judge gear on it's merits and leave people out it.

If I want conflict, all I have to do is go to work. 60 hours a week of that crap is more than enough for me.

[guzziguy]

Isn't arguing about comparative SQs a waste of time? It's something that is totally subjective. Nobody can be right or wrong in their choice, they like what they like.

[swt61]

I can certainly understand people thinking the Beta 22, KG dynamic and Millett amps as thin or flat. I'm not sure thin is the word I'd use, but I absolutely understand what you mean. That just happens to be my preference for an amp. I like a livelier source though, and that helps give the system that fuller sound. But I'd rather replace my source to suit and keep my amp very neutral.

There is no reason we all have to like the same sound sig., that's the whole fun of auditioning other's rigs IMO.

Al, your home speaker rig is one of the best I've ever heard, so I doubt we're that far away from each other, sound wise.

[blessingx]

Having previously a GS-1 and never completely warmed to either owned B22s, I probably need to align myself with the crap taste group lately.

Note: I hear Pete's stuff in the middle (my current favorite spot).

Edited December 20, 2011 by blessingx

[Voltron]

Note: I hear Pete's stuff in the middle (my current favorite spot).

I think I would agree. Go Team Craptastic!

[The Monkey]

The Nugget Audio B22 gives all of you the Gas Face.

[deepak]

Isn't arguing about comparative SQs a waste of time? It's something that is totally subjective. Nobody can be right or wrong in their choice, they like what they like.

Yup I'm fine with that. But this thread was never about Gilmore amps until he posted 2 replies about their sound quality, so that opened the can to allow people to post what they thought about KG's designs.

Also I sold my G-Lite so I can not compare, but I do think the Dynahi either balanecd or single ended is a big step up and I prefer it to the B22 as well. With speaker gear I actually prefer tube pre and power amps (generalization), and my prefered source is analog, so that should be sort of telling that I would not like cold/clinical sounding amps.

[rhythmdevils]

I don't think you have bad ears, just crap taste.

The crap taste comment is just pathetic.

Do you really think you and Kevin are the only intelligent people in headphone-dom? Cavalli has not only designed a whole line up of amps, he's given them away for free. Excuse me, but where's the Spritzer line of amps? At worst NoNoNoNoNoNo is a fanboy who likes being at the center of something new and exciting. You may disapprove but that's neither illegal nor immoral.

The real crime here isn't anything Cavalli has done, but what you're doing right now- you're the one with an agenda. Someone expresses an opinion that goes against what you want people to think and you start trashing them. It's straight propaganda and it's pretty clear that's what you're doing to Cavalli. He's the competition to your beloved Gilmore, so you've got to get all your little minions to hate his amps. It makes me sick that so few people here seem to be able to stand up to this hateful bullshit.