catscratch

Right, don't take these impressions for granted, since I'm pretty drunk. But, I do have the O2 Mk1 and the O2 Mk2 side-by-side. What I notice immediately is that the Mk1 is much more linear in the bass. There is none of the Mk2's annoying midbass hump, and the bass is deeper. This works in two ways: in tracks that are deficient in bass to begin with, the Mk1 feels very bass-light. The Mk2's midbass boost actually helps it in dealing with thin recordings. But, in tracks that are full in bass, the Mk1 comes alive, whereas the Mk2 just sounds thick and boomy. So, the Mk1 is more accurate in the bass, better in good recordings - but worse on bad ones. Also, I immediately notice that the Mk1's midrange tone is very different. It's much more neutral. It's not warm, mind you! I actually would prefer a warmer midrange tone. Rather, this is pretty much spot-on accurate. Think HD600 rather than HD650, and you'll get the picture. The Mk2 is distinctly boosted in the upper mids, which makes the midrange colder and somewhat harsher - but also more vibrant on some recordings. Speaking of mids, the Mk2 is more forward in the mids. The Mk1 isn't recessed in the mids; it's actually just about ruler-flat, but the Mk2 has more boosted mids as a whole. That makes it more forward sounding than the Mk1. Also, curiously enough, the Mk1 sounds brighter on some tracks. When its midrange isn't quite as forward and its bass is more reflective of the insufficient bass on the recording, it can come off as pretty bright. Once again, this is more accurate since it's showing more of what's on the recording. The Mk2 is distinctly more airy sounding. The headstage is bigger, and there seems to be more air and space between instruments. The Mk1 is more focused, and the headstage is smaller, though it portrays dimensional cues just as well, if not better than the Mk2. On the whole, I actually like the way the Mk2 does soundstage more. But, in most respects, the Mk1 wins. It seems to me that the Mk1 is the ultimately neutral, ultimately accurate design. With the Mk2, the net effect is to take the Mk1 sound and make it more SR-404-ish. It's livelier, more forward, more vibrant, but the frequency response is messed up. It uses colorations to achieve this effect rather than being naturally more forward, more lively, and more vibrant. On some recordings, especially with rock, the Mk2's particular presentation makes for a more engaging listen. But on the whole, the Mk1 presents exactly what's on the recording, and does it in a very neutral, but still very lush and "wet" sort of way. It's more laid-back, a bit less thumpy in the bass, but also more transparent, and tends to disappear much more. Now, my rig isn't good enough for either headphone to disappear completely, but while I'm aware of the Mk2's colorations, for good and ill, at all times, the Mk1 tends to let go a lot more and let the music come through. So, to summarize: Mk2: - more forward in the midrange - colder in the midrange with elevated upper mids - airier sound with bigger headstage - boosted midbass - lacking deep bass - lively and vivid but more colored Mk1: - ruler flat FR - accurate, rather than warm tone in the mids - linear bass, with no noticeable bass boost anywhere - more relaxed and laid-back - tighter, more focused soundstage with no artificial airyness When all is said and done, I prefer the Mk1. I'll listen a bit more tomorrow when I'm sober, since believe me, I'm in no fit state to make comparisons, though the above does stink of truth (and booze). But, before this, I was ready to dismiss the Mk2 as a failed design, a misstep in Stax's lineup, if you will. Right now, I think that it's not as good as the Mk1 but it's still one of the best headphones I've ever heard. It has a different sound and a different personality, and it's definitely more colored, but it's by no means anything other than a really good headphone. Just not the best one out there, unfortunately. Which the Mk1 very well may be. Oh yeah, I actually find the Mk1 to be more comfortable, but that's because my particular pair has a headband that's more worn-in, and less tight. The Mk2's headband tends to pull the headphones out of position for me, but I'm sure with more wear, it will feel more natural.

Yeah, I'm a tube man through and through, and I have a feeling that the KGSS would be a bit too clinical for my tastes. It seems to me that a 717 not only has the right price to performance ratio, but is also a very good stepping stone for my project this fall - building a Blue Hawaii. Nah, it shouldn't take too much time to put a new rig together, so you will still have something to listen to while you're here

OK, scratch that. Blech! Anyone got an O2 Mk1 in spankin' new condition they want to sell me?

Well, I may have gotten my hands on an O2 Mk1. So, that means that I may have both in time to do some back to back listening. The Mk2 already found a buyer but it won't switch hands for two weeks or so. Will be interesting to hear what's what, assuming the deal on the Mk1 works out. Of course, then begins the hunt for an amp. I've sort of warmed up to the solid state idea, but still need to decide on KGSS vs 717. I do like a warmer tonality, so the 717 sounds a bit more appealing (that, and it's cheaper). I would consider a Woo GES but I need dual volume controls and I don't think it has that... Is any of that going to do a better job than the SRD-7 Pro/Dared combo I already have? Or should I just suck it up and start DIYing that Blue Hawaii I've been thinking of?

I think Icarium summed it up way better than I could have done it myself. Again, I'm not pointing fingers, and I have nothing but respect for you personally; I'm simply saying that this is how I would have preferred things to go down, and I think that the current situation would have been avoided if this is indeed how things would have been done. Would the mods have taken a gigantic quantity of flak from the mainstream community? Yes and then some. The bitching would have been so loud you wouldn't have heard people shill their Rudistors and Ultrasones. But in the long term, I think it would have been worth it. I've seen examples of communities moderated that way, and while they are invariably harsh on the newbie that doesn't make the necessary effort to adapt to the forum etiquette, they have always maintained a consistent quality of posts despite their growing popularity. To quote Conan the Barbarian: "Success will test one's mettle as well as the strongest adversary."

How's the midrange on the modded Mk2? Is it still colder than the Mk1? Also, is it possible to bend, bash, hammer, or otherwise mod the Mk2 springs to get them to resemble Mk1 springs? Not that I'll probably do this since I intend to sell my Mk2, and I want it to stay as pristine as possible. But, I'm very much curious.

Meh. Less QQ and more L2P!

This... is shocking. Just read the whole thread. Yes, I can half-way understand a new amp builder not really having a clear understanding of how to run a business, and I can very easily see how trying to mass-produce custom-designed amps as essentially a one man show (I think?) is a disastrous business model, but come on... Singlepower? Where did the very high initial reputation come from I wonder? And who (and what) out there created it in the first place if the business practice is so far behind the reputation for sonic excellence? Because if this is how things have been run for years, then Mikhail should have been out of the game a long time ago. It's a miracle he's lasted. I certainly wouldn't have the patience to deal with him for as long as some of you have, and we're not exactly talking mainstream products here; for this much money I'd expect different levels of commitment and service. I had similar matters dealing with Peter McAlister, which is also why I'm not going that route again. He was always late in communication, late with deadlines, shipped a damaged amp (or maybe something is wrong with the design), and there was an incident where an amp was lost by Canada Post, but now that I think about it, it could just have been a phantom shipment to buy him more time. And, what's also similar to the whole SP deal, is that when it works, the amp sounds excellent. If it only was a piece of junk I could write it off, but it's not (though it's built like one, that's for damn sure). I think KG is very much right when he lays the blame (partially) at HF's door. In fact, a lot of what's wrong with HF comes from, at least from what I have been able to see, too much lenience on the part of the mods when it comes to member selectivity and catering to sponsors. So much of head-fi could be improved if all the inane posts were cleaned up, if the search function actually worked, if the obvious shills were kicked out, if sponsors were held to a standard of quality in their products, and if the mods stepped in to actually control the quality of the posts, and not allow 100 iterations of "what teh best phon3z fer ipod..." threads to appear every day. They need to actually kick out some of the idiots that are plaguing the forum, which is now a significant chunk of the population. Otherwise things will start to look like the Blizzard forums before long (and they're nearly there already). I think that as head-fi became more successul, it attracted more, um... "mainstream" members, but its moderation hasn't changed to follow suit, and that is really killing it in the long term. And, I'm not saying this to point fingers and assign blame, but in the hopes that it will be taken constructively and that something will actually be done about it. ... but that's another story. Or maybe I'm confused and don't know what's really going on (likely).

What also drives me up the wall is that the very few professional reviews on these headphones out there haven't mentioned anything about it. Stax need feedback that they screwed up the design and that there are people out there that think this version sounds worse, because given track history, we may not see another revision of the O2 for a very long time. Or maybe the added midbass is precisely what a lot of customers want? I can't really see this being the case since it's not like the O2 was ever deficient in the bass to begin with (I think?). And, it's not as if this current iteration of Stax can't design a proper headphone, since they've given us the original O2 and the 4070. P.S. It's not exactly that I'm yelling that the sky is falling here as the Mk2 is still one of the best heapdhones I've ever heard. I just don't understand the need to step back and sonically compromise, since I never heard the fart to be a major problem for anyone.

SRD-7 Pro transformer out of a Dared VP-20 speaker amp. Not a terribly great amp mind you, but certainly not a bad one, and the transformer box does a much better job than the SRM-313, which IMO can't drive the O2 worth a damn. I listen to a lot of electronic music in general and psytrance in particular, and any deficiency in bass performance will quickly become obvious. But even with more common tracks, you can hear it. For instance, "Subterranean Homesick Alien" from Radiohead's OK Computer is an example... the bass guitar in the track should be pretty even in volume and definition across the board, but with the Mk2 the lower down the pitch goes, the quieter it gets and the fuzzier the sound gets with less definition. That's definitely an irregularity in the FR and inability to reproduce the deepest notes quite as well as the mid and upper bass. Thom Yorke's voice is also a bit thinner than usual with a lighter/colder tone to it; a bit different from the way more neutral headphones present it. With something like Shpongle though, it is painfully evident. Shpongle is the musical equivalent of a sine sweep - it covers pretty much all frequency ranges simultaneously. And, while I wouldn't ordinarily use electronic music to evaluate a headphone's performance, I know Shpongle like the back of my hand and can tell colorations pretty well, just because I've heard it on pretty much every single system I've critically listened to. Fuck, that's not what I wanted to hear. But, what the heck, it could spare me money in the long run. I think I'll sell them and get an original Mk1. I can't stand any midrange issues. At all. If a headphone has a unpleasantly colored midrange (I can take pleasant colorations a-la-K340 but not unpleasant ones) it goes. The Mk2 unfortunately commits one of it's few sins in the one area I can't forgive it for. I haven't tested it with the McAlister though, who knows what synergy could do. I'm sure that with proper synergy you could, at least to some extent, compensate for its problems, but that's not how I build my systems. I'm in the "transducer first" camp (as long as it is adequately driven, since you can't judge an underdriven transducer), and I want to have a headphone I'm 100% happy with before I upgrade the rest of the system to match. I'll test the SRD-7/Dared combo with whatever else I have on hand and check out a few other sources too just to be completely sure. [Edit: is it just me, or did Stax voice this closer to the SR-404 sound than (I would think) it was before? And isn't the SR-404's particular kind of emphasized upper-midrange coloration a little too typical of so many Japanese headphones? A lot of audio-technicas have similar midrange tones. Heck, in the piano business, a lot of Japanese tune their Kawaii's or whatever to 444hz rather than the typical 440, and that results in a tone that's a bit eerily similar to the type of midrange that I'm hearing out of a lot of Japanese cans. If so... that's not good. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but if that's the case, then my hopes for solid future Stax products are... diminished.]

Interesting. I was hoping you'd say that the O2 Mk1 would be quite a bit better, since the Mk2 is pissing me off right now. There are three things very wrong: 1) insufficient deep bass 2) overemphasized and bloated midbass 3) midrange tone (way too cold and shouty). This is in spite of nearly everything else being very much right. Still haven't done the port mod - maybe this weekend. I don't have blu-tak yet though I have some non-reversible cement to plug those ports, though I'd wager it would probably be a more wise idea to get blu-tak in the first place But, your findings are also making me think that the rest of my signal path is a lot more subpar for this rig than I originally thought. Now, I intentionally haven't spent a ton on upgrading it since I haven't yet settled on the headphone that I want to build the rig around - but maybe if I'm to hear what the headphones really have to offer, I don't have a choice. Other than that, I'm thinking that there might be a FS: O2 MK2 soon followed by a WTB: O2 Mk1... and a new signal path to feed it all. Don't get me wrong, I still think the Mk2 is a very good headphone, fabulous in fact, but in this rig it's colored in all the wrong ways. It sounds like it's trying too hard to impress, whereas in truth, with a transducer this detailed and this dynamic you don't need to try to impress; you just sit back and let the music do the impressing for you. With some genres - especially rock and small-scale ensembles - it works well, but with my favorite electronica, where I know every nuance of every vocal, tone of every instrument and sample down to a fault, it really gets on my nerves. On a far more positive note, I finally managed to get a good fit after some time of wrestling with the headband and getting it into shape. The issue was me not being used to having a bit of pressure at the back of the ear, since for the best fit I find that the headphones have to sit slightly forward on the ear, angling the pinna a bit outwards. But, now that I'm more used to it, fit is finally fine, and damn, they are some comfortable headphones. Spectacular, in fact. I'm also surprised as to how much bass quantity changes with fit - I was finding them deep-bass non-existent and generally bass-deficient, but now there's too much midbass and not enough deep bass, with the overall bass quantity being a bit on the thick side. I think I'll stop bitching and plug those ports as soon as I have the time and patience.

Maybe OT, but man, trying to talk sense into head-fi these days is like trying to beat sense into a wall. I give up.

Right. I'm getting tired of the non-existant deep bass on the O2 MkII, so I think I'm off to plug some bass ports this weekend. I'll let all know how it turns out, (and how much the driver replacement costs).

Don't have anything on digital, but I did look like a 10 year old Daniel Radcliffe. If only it stayed that way unfortunately. The freaky thing is that I have virtually no childhood memories before age 17. Must have been all the drugs I was on at the time (bad health problems here but let's not get into that). So, in a sense, I didn't have a childhood. Explains a thing or two

Nope, one of the few 'stats I haven't tried yet. Definitely on my list. I remember the HE90 fitting well but I was sitting down. Listening while lying down unfortunately puts a very different comfort demand on your headphones. I'll try that. The headband looks like it can be bent without any issues. I've been somewhat reluctant to manhandle $2k phones but what the hell.

I had different comfort issues; there wasn't nearly enough clamping force and the right earcup kept coming off at the bottom. There needs to be a perfect fit for this headphone to generate any meaningful bass, and to have equal volumes of bass in both ears I had to hold the right earcup in place. I couldn't really get a good fit otherwise, with any elastics, or any pair of K340s modded or unmodded. I think it's a spectacularly shitty chassis design, but given the age, it's forgivable. I would love to see it on a DT770 chassis, meaning K340 earcups with pleather earpads and DT770 headband. Or something similar at least.

I actually have some comfort issues with the O2 MkII. The problem is that I usually listen while lying down, which means that the headphones don't have the weight of the cable to keep them planted firmly on my head. In the absense of that, the self-adjusting headband keeps pulling the headphones upwards and I have to re-adjust the fit fairly often. I think the self-adjusting headband design is stupid, and they should go back to a simpler, SR-404 like design where you can adjust the tension and position of the headband yourself. I also like more clamping force in my headphones, with more pressure at the bottom of the earcup by the jawline rather than the top of the earcup by the temples. But, if I were to listen sitting up then yes, it would be a very comfortable headphone. The HD650 is ideal in terms of fit for me, but the velour earpads do slide around more than pleather ones. An HD650 with pleather or real leather eapads would be as comfortable as it gets for me.

Yah that'll get done pretty soon. I do want to get completely familiar with the current sound first, since I don't want to have to swap back and forth. That, and I have to work up the courage to dissect my shiny $2k phones. I have a hard time opening up a sandwich without something going wrong, and I wager this takes a bit more... responsibility.

Just off a long listening session with the O2 MkII, and long listening sessions aren't something I usually do. But, I stayed home sick, so what the hell. I'm really surprised how well it handles metal, but it has a very different presentation of metal than what I'd consider traditionally "good." It keeps up with every riff, every drum stroke, and every bass note, but it does all this without losing its lushness. So, the music has punch, it has speed, but its main quality is still the distinct O2 lushness, which is not how metal is typically presented. So, it's a coloration if you will, but it works. It doesn't hurt that the O2 is dynamic as all hell. Well, I lie, I don't know if Hell is really all that dynamic - but the O2 is. The deep bass dropoff doesn't bother me since bass guitars don't go that low anyway. The added midbass makes for a bass-centric presentation on some tracks that have an overemphasized bass to start with, and without silver cables there is a bit of bass bloat. But, the SRD-7 Pro isn't going to drive the O2 without bass bloat to begin with, and silver cables only mask that (or maybe it's the copper that has a bit of extra bloat on it, and the O2 just shows it up). Classic rock is handled brilliantly. Seriously, I've yet to hear it better. The lushness plays into the slower tempo and more jazzy instrumentation, and everything sounds like it should, if not better. A bit too much bass at times on more bass-heavy recordings but meh. Copper FTL. Once again, the sound is sometimes so dynamic it even goes against the recording so to speak; quiet parts are very quiet - but have a lot of pop and cut through the ambience nicely - and loud parts hit hard. Very hard. My ears are ringing. Interestingly enough, the O2 doesn't mask sibilance. If it's there, you will hear it. I thought it would with its ultra-linear treble, but I guess that's the nature of an ultra-linear treble. The HD650 has dips in the lower treble that mask sibilance when it's there, but the O2 is linear through those regions and recording imperfections come through in all their glory. Sibilance still doesn't hurt your ears like it would on a bright(er) headphone. Vocals can at times have a shouty character, but that's more my source. Guitar tone is perfect, but distortion can at times be given a slightly colored character thanks to the general lushness. So, uh, yeah. O2 can't rock? I really would compare the O2 to a fine wine. It just has that bouquet of tastes and aftertastes - or in this case, layers and layers to the recording - that still doesn't interfere with the fullness of it all, and doesn't break up the overall picture. Infinite depth of detail, but with a focus on drive and overall presentation, and a very realistic tone despite a very liquid and effortless lushness. Or, lushness and musicality without excessive euphony, if you will.

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for.

I'm not quite up to making my own cables yet, but maybe with enough time I'll get there. ATM it's Headphile BlackSilver, which isn't that bright with the 003, but the O2 is on a different level of revealing. And how would I go about doing that? Videotape a full DBT, and get a notarized signature of authenticity through a paid legal observer? Publish a study in a journal? That's not realistic, and you know it. Better yet, YOU prove that I can't hear it, on my rig, in my system.

Definitely. I didn't really post that to dispute the value of DBT, it's more of a poke in the eye to the analog cable naysayer crowd. You really have be deaf not to hear the difference in this rig.

I definitely hear a drop off in the deep bass on the O2 MkII, but not the bump in the midbass. But, my source is somewhat bass-deficient with a drop-off in the deep bass as well, and my amp is slightly bright. Not a good combination for bass prowess. I've moved away from silver cables with the rig in its current state, as they are just too damn bright. Copper brings the mids and highs into balance but the lessened clarity is noticeable. Silver does give things a lot more "wow" factor and a certain shimmer to the instruments, but the tone is unnatural. Copper is more restrained and more subtle but the tone is right. That definitely wasn't the case with the HD650, but the O2 MkII is a good bit brighter naturally (but also more fluid at the same time). So, more experimentation is needed (and a new source). I'm definitely interested in seeing how Spritzer's mod works out. I doubt I'd mind the squealing much, the SR-003 squeals when its fit is adjusted and it doesn't bother me. The O2 takes a lot of fussing around initially to get the fit right but once it's in place it tends to stay in place. P.S. DBT my ass. The difference between the two cables is incredible. Rather, the O2's ability to show this difference is incredible; I haven't heard another headphone that's so revealing to a simple IC change.

Well, let's see. Woke up severely depressed as I've done the last 5 years. Also hung over from yesterday's binge. Dropped some Kava-Kava extract and off to work we go, where all hell is breaking loose and somehow I have to hold shit together. Multi-task for 10 hours doing the typical meaningless and inane things that hold a smoothly-functioning office together, then back home, mow the lawn, and down more Kava. Yes, not exactly the most eventful day. Though later on I have a review to write, and about an hour of Kung-fu stancework to do. So, that is a bit of an improvement. A year ago my day would have been to the tune of "wake up, walk half a mile down the beach to staff center for breakfast, do an hour of coral reef ecology lecture, do a 30m/30min deep transect monitoring dive, lunch, 2 hours of basking in the sun, then do a 18m/50min transect monitoring dive, then shoot the sunset from the beach in front of my cabin, then dinner, some Chi-gong before sleep, then crashtime. How far the mighty have fallen. Except I'm not that mighty. Still, I will be up there again in about 3-4 years, and this time, for good. Might as well enjoy the reefs while they're still here, methinks.

I've had mine for a few weeks now. Using an SRD-7 Pro out of a Dared VP-20, and it works quite well actually. Not excessively bassy or sleepy at all, quite vivid sounding if anything.