purrin

T2 was a notable jump up in control, transparency, and dynamic capability. What was most impressive to me was its consistency at different volume levels, i.e. the harder to drive stats always stayed composed. The KGSS sounded really crappy (as with, why even bother) compared to it. Not only were differences in DACs easily comparable, but even differences via playback software on the mac through the Amarra (native, via iTunes, or other, etc.) I don't remember exact what was used, but Andy can fill you in.

Looking around my house right now to see what I can sell. Thanks for putting this together. It was a lot of fun and one of the best meets I've ever been to.

The 009 is very neutral. None of that 6k "slap", pushed up treble, and slight warmth of the HD800. Out of the right source and amp, the 009s can have some really nice bass. I think what was really eye opening for me was how much a chameleon the 009s were. A simple change in source transformed it from "thin sounding / limp-dick bass" to "lush with balls."

I was trying to get away from STAX since I had sold my 009 a few months back. This is why hanging around you STAX maniacs is dangerous. Prolly gonna get an O2/007. I need a highly resolving more relaxed 'phone to pair with the HD800.

Regarding my comments on the LCD3. I've decided to change my mind about it after today, especially in comparison to the HD800. It's long story that probably hasn't ended yet. Suffice to say that I got to hear the HE90/009/007/O1 out of a DIY T2 (awesome), the HD800/R10 from the BA (very good), and the LCD3 from the BA. All under a fairly controlled environment. The source used was the PWD mk2.

I will do out of curiosity and report back. I did take the foam out and it didn't sound too different, whereas with the veiled pair, the bass increased massively when the felt was taken out. And then LCD4 after that. Maybe I'll make a quick trip to Milos' place to directly compare with the 007. Thing that sucks is that don't make the mk1 anymore. And the Yamas guy is a POS when it comes to service. I mean, Audeze makes Sunday pickups and deliveries to my house. Can't beat that.

So here's another interesting tidbit. The current pair (which is #3) I have now actually don't sound as "fast" as my first replacement pair #2 (which lasted less than 24 hours before a driver failed). I was very excited when I received #2 because I thought they sounded fast, that is comparable to STAX fast. With this third pair, I didn't quite think so. I mean I would hesitate to say that without direct comparison. I didn't want to mention anything without another sample similar to #2 to compare to and other people to corroborate. I mean, it could have been my imagination, or just a matter of the initial excitement wearing off by the time I received #3. Well, this new pair that someone sent to me for measurements sound just like my #2 pair. Incredibly fast. I had Luis and Mike over tonight (Mike had already heard my #2 pair for a little bit before it died.) Both confirmed the difference. Oh well. I don't know if I should even bother, or just give up, i.e. chalk it up to production variances. Ah screw it.

So where to start... I didn't want to post anything until I actually got my hands on at least a few of the new "un-veiled" LCD3s. I've heard three of these new ones and measured two so far. I suspect these new LCD3s don't quite sound the same as the "un-veiled" ones heard at CanJam, because they depart from the Audeze house sound quite a bit. The two pairs I've measured have excellent driver matching, and they even match each other quite well too. This would be a first for Audeze (at least from the cans that I've heard myself.) BTW, I'm not going to bore anyone with graphs - you guys know where to get them - or you can just ask. On that topic, I would like to see Audeze include measurements for both drivers on the FR sheet that they include with the LCD3s. They shouldn't have anything to hide if they are going to include a plot in the first place and advertise +/- 0.5 db matching. In terms of clarity, speed, transient response, and resolution, they are more than an incremental upgrade from the r2. The veiled LCD3s (with the TP mods) - I know some of you heard this exact pair at the Bay Area meet - were definitely "better, but not worth it." I won't come straight out and say that these are "worth it", but again, the improvements from the r2 are more than "incremental." First of all, these new LCD3s have the least amount of bass energy among all of the LCD# series. Of course, this is difficult to gauge because every LCD2 (r2 and especially r1) sounded slightly different to me. As for less bass, I see this as a good thing, because it was this excessive bass energy in the veiled versions that masked the rest of the spectrum, particularly the harmonics and overtones, and also made them sound slow and plodding. Audeze did replace the thin layer of felt with 2mm thick foam - the circular disc behind the metal cage. I don't know this it was this or a diaphragm change which resulted in the new LCD3 sounding more dextrous. Not just nice punchy, clean sounding bass (the bass quality is truly unparalleled,) but super articulate with strings and percussion. The new LCD3 are more neutral than the HD800s when compared to more neutral transducers like the HP1000 or UERMs. Not a difficult task against the HD800s, but let me explain. In comparison, the HD800s sound laid-back in parts of the midrange and then suddenly turn around with a nice slap at 6k with an elevated response all the way up the treble. In contrast, the LCD3 has less warmth - flatter around the mid-to-high bass areas, have slightly less air, and has midrange in spades. The LCD3 treble is hardly lacking too, there's actually plenty of it, where a bad recording could actually hurt - but not nearly to the extent of the HD800. On the midrange, there may be a possible issue there. One thing I've noted with this new batch of drivers: They extend a bit further, end with a little kick upwards, and then drop down quickly. The veiled pair seems to start its "Audeze shelf" roll-off earlier in the band - from the low mids - and gradually settles by 2kHz. As for the kick upwards, I've measured some ringing at 3.5-4kHz. Using an open-air measurement method, there is quite a bit of ringing. Taking a sealed measurement (which I feel is more accurate in some respects with planars/orthos), there is a sharp minor resonance -25db down. You won't see these on Audeze graphs because of their smoothing and also because they set the CSD floor to -25db. How audible is this? I used to think it wasn't very much (I tend to be immune to or have a hard time picking up ringing at 4k-5kHz), however now that the new toy syndrome has worn off, I think it's quite evident, especially since the ringing already corresponds with a notable response peak, which suddenly drops down 4-5db to finally settle at the bottom of the shelf. Certain recordings with an emphasis in the region (e.g., a few tracks on Adele 21) can be a little be rough, but not unbearably so. One interesting thing I noted is that lower output Z amps better control this midrange resonance - also makes the bass tighter too. The highish output Z of the BA is probably not optimal for the LCD3, but we all have to pick our poison. So compared to the veiled LCD3, what we lose with is a bit a smoothness in the FR in exchange for a more neutral sounding headphone with some excessive midrange energy and much better speed, transient response, resolution, etc. To me the trade was worth it. (There's a reason I sent my veiled-pair on the statewide tour. It was because I hated it and I knew I wouldn't miss it.) Still not perfect, and not quite worth $2000, but getting closer.

Thanks works for me. I'll send out my info soon.

Since I don't know you, can you PM me and tell me a little bit about yourself. Or fill in your profile. You are in as long you as you are not Dale Thorn - which I doubt- because you building / built a KGSS. How's that coming along?

I'll get back to you. I am a little bit leery and am "high alert" right now because some idiot using an IP address based in Socal (and then again using a proxy based in Canada) signed-in to my website spamming racist shit. I guess I've insulted too many peoples' favorite amps on HF. Always need to be careful with emotionally unstable people - I have a family with kids. I'm not implying you are one of those crazies or wierdos, but it would be good if someone I knew could vouch for you.

Sunday May 27, 2012 EVENT IS NOW CLOSED - OUT OF SPACE. Attendees: Teufelshunde n3rdling Anaxilus Melomaniac eggil 909 Iron Dreamer? LFF? Asr blubliss? Limiting space to 6-7. If space gets tight, I would give priority to people I know (or someone I know who can vouch for you.) Serving beef ribs slow-cooked for 8 hours in my Egg. I'm open to moving it somewhere else within 10 miles of where I live. Too many meets all over the state for me this year. Possible meeting to coordinate and help with the details of the "big" August meet @ LAX if anyone interested.

Oh you mean me? Yeah, what I heard was more of a wierd reverb effect and only on specific early LCD2r1s. I've never heard it since when I actually owned an r1 and that was long time ago.

It's basically the equivalent of -2.5db @100Hz with a Q of 0.5 and +2 @6Khz with a Q of 1.2 on a parametric EQ. Basically an overall -4db reversal of the "Audeze shelf." Significant is a good word. The "night-and-day" thing was just a better way of saying it no longer sounded like shit, but actually quite nice.

Subjectively no. I heard four pairs and measured one. I would grade them C-, A+, A-, B-. I need to steal another r2 for measurements though.

Did you feel the W5000 had more emphasis on the midrange than the W3000ANV? I found it harder to turn up the volume on the W5000 because of that. It just became all midrangy and shouty. Also, the W3000 seemed to have a lot of mid-bass - at least for me. Could be amp dependent though. Don't know what you are running.

I have the veiled version. They measure 4db lower than an r2 from 2-8kHz. It's hard to say for sure since they appear to measure all over the place based on Tyll's report and now my data - after I obtained a 2nd LCD3. See my HF LCD3 measurement thread for the latest (less crap there than the regular thread.)

I need to send you my LCD3s.

The odd thing about Senn seeding HF with samples is that they announced the headphone at CES "as-is" without first considering feedback. I mean WTF? Heck, the sample HD700s are just being sent back as of this very moment! As I mentioned in HF, I've always felt Senn was kind of arrogant. Not necessarily a bad trait as it was excusable in the past because they made good shit. It's obvious Senn was hoping to get a hype-machine going by strategically selecting certain members to have them. They just didn't think it would somewhat back-fire.

Seriously considering this now. I blame it all on Jude. He stole the good sounding pairs.

So given the log scale, how does 0.03 distortion compared to 0.01 sound like at 100Hz?

I don't think they are defective - but it's possible that we can chalk it up to production variances. I spoke with someone from HF and there are anecdotes that some pairs may be shelved more than the others. I 100% agree with Bob regarding the thickness and veil compared to the rev2. Mr. Googleli (god help us) over at HF has said the same thing, but in this instance he actually prefers the thicker sound. I believe one or two others over at HF have stated that they returned their LCD3s because of the thickness and veil; and a few others have actually applied the TP mod. They do sound great with the TP mod though. These impressions are measurable. The LCD3s are about 3-4 db down from 2k-8kHz region compared to the LCD2r2s: http://www.changstar...topic,51.0.html Note the perceived extra sub-bass of the LCD3 is also measurable. Now how else do the LCD3 measure better??? As far as the distortion measurements go, fuck 'em. They are low enough and usually not a major concern for headphones, except maybe in the bass. The major strength of the LCD3 is it's smoothness. No peaky shit until the high-treble (seen in FR and CSDs). And trust me, no one hears peaks in the highest treble 1/2 octave.

Updated. Got the SoCal guys. Maybe a few more after the NorCal meet, but I'm selling them after that. I get feeling I'm not going to get more than $1200 for them by then.

Let's send them down south to you and Particleman since you both are close. I'll let Whitney know that you will be picking them up.

You guys are all in. Just make you can pick up and drop off from Whitney. I think Neko and Particleman are both in the South Bay? LOL, I'm not exactly keeping strict track of it. Let me check with Whitney and CEETEE to see where it goes next.