oatmeal769

You're right... the post started as just a DNA thought, but expanded from there. Mod's, Should I move this?

Well, I brought two of my own burned CD's with EAC ripped copies of stuff I'm really familiar with, running a complete gamut from Miles Davis and Mozart, to Slipknot and Crystal Method... I truly like all of what I put on there, which I think helps too. I refrained from trying headphones until later as well. I used only my 600's for the first couple hours, as I was there primarily to shop amps. I realize that the D/A conversion matters too, but each amp had either a high end player, or DAC supplying it, FWIW. I tried to listen to each amp for about a half an hour or more. It was noisy in the room, and I'd certainly like to have multiple listens to really make an opinion, but these are off the top of my head what I remember. Of course these are just my silly uneducated, room full of talking people opinions, so take them as that. I started with the DNA. It was fine. Not amazing, but certainly not bad at all. It sounded like what I imagine when someone says "tubes". It had decent range, and a pretty flat frequency response. Smooth and kinda rich, but I didn't get a real sense of openess and holographic sound stage though. It also had notable warmth and tube sound that I've always heard as distortion. I think some people like tubes for that extra bite or something. I'm not saying that's bad, but I personally don't care for it as an extra to the music. If it's there, it should bring out more of the music without being noticeable. I also messed with the output switch. I definitely preferred the 120 ohm setting over the low Z - but more because I'd swear the low-z sounded to me like it kind of switched the speakers out of phase. (?) The soundstage went out of focus, and the lows and highs shifted into weirdness as well. Subtle, but interesting. I also tried a DNA with a couple upgrades performed by Reference Audio Mods - chiefly a pricier capacitor. It definitely cleaned up the tube warmth and brought a little more clarity. I don't know what it'd add to the cost, but I'd say it's definitely worth it. I tried the RSA 'Apache' next. Nice little amp, reference quality, no complaints. I like the seperate power supply and the nifty...HOLY SMOKES! $3 GRAND? Are you kidding me?!? I heard the B-52 at Can Jam and was really impressed, but I thought $5K was an awful lot for it. Especially when I had heard other tube amps there costing less than half which sounded really similar in quality... BUT 3 GRAND for this I heard nothing any better from this than what I got out of the Audio-GD C2C (See Below) costing ONE TENTH as much. This thing is VERY pretty to look at and the build quality is far and away the best of anything else I've seen, but ummm... Wow, I'm missing something. The Audio-GD C2C. Okay, now we're in familiar territory. The sub $500 audio range, is where I've got loads of experience either listening, or trying to get the most out of. This thing was the big surprise. I can't believe how good it sounds for $300. accurate and flat, punchy, lively, but not brittle or harsh at all. Not a lot going on in layering or holographics, but I loved it for the price. I'll buy one eventually. I went here thinking of Audio-GD as yet another bargain Chinese manufacturer, but I was pleasantly surprised big time. Then I sat down at the Zana Deaux. Suffice to say I spent much of the rest of my time there perched in front of it. I have no doubt I pissed some others off by hogging! It doesn't sound tubey. It doesn't sound SS, It just... is. EVERYTHING I had on my very diverse set of CD's sounded just great, - That is, exactly as I'd like. If the recording was weak, the Zana brought it out, but man the strong stuff sounded great! It has no weak spots, it's very consistent. It gets better as the session goes on, and I felt for the first time that I was on an amp that had MASSIVE amounts of reserve power. The biggest thrill was the huge difference in soundstage and imaging over everything else. It just sounds like a bigger amp, I felt like my headphones grew 5 sizes on my head. Then as I kept listening, it kept revealing new things to me. It is now the undisputed champ in oatmeal's headphone audio world. I contacted them about buying one today. After I'd tried a few others briefly, I tried the 800's on a few rigs. Man are they nice. I'm fine with waiting a year or two to pick them up used though, $1,300 is pretty steep. They are not 3 times better than a $400 set of HD600's or 650's. They are markedly better though. Definitely up there with the really pricey Stax stuff I've heard. So, after all that, I started shopping for DAC's, and am pretty sold on the PS Audio DL-III, especially with the upgrades! I moved one over to the Zana, after using a couple other DAC's with it, and it was clearly the best I heard, but that is for another thread...

I spent about 6 hours today listening to only about 5 units. I got a lot out of this meet!

Really? I didn't know that! CanJam was my first show. No wonder I heard so many singing ladies. I've been narrowing down my foobar list of stuff to put on a test CD for this weekend's meet. So far I have Miles Davis, Pantera, Crystal Method, Tchaikovsky, some tripno-phibian-rap-thud thing, a couple jazz quartets, Chopin and Mozart in line so far... I do actually have Slavonic Dances 6, 10, and 8. Is there a particular one I should use that causes the waste matter to come flying out??

Thanks! I didn't want to get flamed, because what these guys are speaking of is way over my head, and I don't belong here. But I get the gist, am really interested in learning, and I LOVE good sound.

Interesting, I didn't listen to that one at the show, but I did listen to what I think was his newest one the "B-52" (?) I only listened to a jazz ensemble voiced by a female for about 10 minutes, but very much liked what I heard. Is the raptor so much different in sound, or are my ears just crap? What I couldn't believe however is that the man is getting more than 5K for them. It certainly wasn't any better than the Zana at 2.2K, I practically laughed in his face at that. I'd absolutely LOVE to do just that, I'm very good with a soldering kit, and have the concentration. However I do not know how to read schematics, etc. Someone would literally have to write out a parts list and instructions in plain English, and map out what gets soldered to what...

I am not. I do however intend to make Donald's acquaintance and listen to his amp this Saturday at a meet in Northern LA. I am in the market for a step up from what I have now. I mentioned somewhere that I'd heard the EC Zana Deaux at Can Jam and that it had been my 'favorite' so far. Don PM'd me asking me to try his. I'm here doing research on my upcoming purchase, and his amp is in the running. That is correct. I have found more dis-information there than good. I'm hopeful searching here may shed better light. I wouldn't post at all, but I've been following this thread keenly. The former is indeed the case. I know very little about the guts of an amplifier. What I do know is from years of listening rather than electrical theory. I know what sounds good to me, and more importantly what doesn't. I know that I agree with what's said about caps coloring as much or more than anything else, because I've swapped them on my own stuff and heard it. I know that I'm one who likes more damping factor than less with bass, and I'm pretty big on a quick slew rate, and enough power reserve to render accurate transient response and dynamics. I only know this from what I've listened to, and been shown by others with far more knowledge than me. I know I like the quietest noise floor possible, but I've no idea how that's done. I've also heard power lag or sag in tube amps, because I am also a formerly pro musician, and sound guy. Good for blues guitar, bad for headphones. I also know that the sound of a setup is the sum of it's parts. An amp must be chosen based on the speakers with which it will work. I'm mostly concerned with how this amp will work with my HD600's, (and maybe a set of Grado's down the road) which I like best in the 'under a grand' club. Can I follow the nitty-gritty of what's being spoken about electrically in this thread? Heck no. But I do know that it all relates directly to the things I've just mentioned. I hope you all won't mind if I lurk a bit longer. I'd also be REALLY interested in listening to an amp closer in design to the alternatives spoken of here, if someone might point one out.

Such as? Would these be marked sonic improvements, or just more complexity to the circuit? What would you do? How would it be better?