Tyll Hertsens

Hey hey hey! If he takes your deal I might just trade him for the zana myself!

OK. No worries. Yeah, I know, the four-pin XLR thing. A) Those combo jacks are sweet cuz you can still plug in reg'ler cans, and 2) The thing won't drive K1000s properly anyway. I guess we started things with the BlockHead and can't really turn back now. I, Tyll do solemnly swear to send a demo to grandenigma1... and before thesloth

Yeah, that's why it so dangerous to be honest: people will just run with the oversimplification. The DBH is clean, black between the notes, articulate, and is amazingly easy on the ears. Just not as fast sounding as the DM, but half of that, I think, is a little harshness due to the uncancelled distortions. I really think that ..... Oh shit, just listen to one when you get the chance.

Oh, don't do that; the zana deux is a lovely amp...and quite different. Keep it AND buy a Desktop Balanced! Go ahead...make my day. 700 Micro Amps and 300 Micro DACs sold this year to date says your full of shit...again...Billy. (OK, a bit harsh, but come on, stop being such a ray fanboy. Thanks for your other kind words though. Why don't you just call "me first" on one, I'll let you in on the front of the line?) Just going to repeat my post from the amp forum thread: Fuck a duck! It's hard to keep track of what's being said where! I wish this rift in the community didn't exist. AAaaaarrrrrgggghhhh! Well I just spent the morning listening to the two amps off the Wadia. And Iron Dreamers and The Sloths comments are pointing pretty strongly to what I'm hearing. It seems to me that the Desktop w/Max modules (DM) is faster and more articulate than the Desktop Balanced w/Home modules (DBH). But the soundstage is wider and deeper on the DBH, and the sound, though a bit warm and fuzzy compared to the 627s in the DM, is also more coherent and less harsh. My guess is that while the DM is articulate and clean, it also suffers from some of the distortions that get partially canceled in the balanced drive configureation. Based purely on what should theoretically be true: the DB should have more 2nd order distortion because some of the odd order stuff should be cancelled by balanced operation, and therefor the DB should be more "tubelike" then the DM. (Major assumption there, I'll try to get some measurements to verify that some month soon.) It is a VERY wierd comparison because at first blush it just sounds like the DM is a bit brighter and quicker than the DBM; that would usually give a better sense of "air" and deeper image. But as you listen you begin to hear this ease with which the DBM projects an image and space that the DM doesn't achieve quite as well. I tried both K701s and HD650s in the test and the nature of the differences was roughly the same for both cans, however, the general consensus around here is that the 650s improve more with balanced drive than the K701s do. We assum that's because the lower impedance of the 701 causes a larger change in damping factor from balanced to unbalanced operation. (Assuming a 1 ohm output impedance of amp and 62 Ohm impedance for 701 and 300 Ohm for 650: Dammping for 650 is 300 on DM and 150 for DBH, for 701 is 62 on DM and 31 on DBH. Because your really starting to get close to the magic damping factor of 10 with the 701 driven balanced, these cans may suffer from a slight loss of damping when driven balanced compared to the 650.) In the final analysis, I would take the DBH over the DM because I am so highly averse to harshness and I really like a layed back and easy sound, but I know there are some folks who want a lightning quick sound and would percieve the DBH as "warm and fuzzy" compared to the DM. I also think that to oversimplify my listening to harsh vs. warm and fuzzy would be wrong; it really is true that there is significant latitude in "good sound" and listening tastes out there and these two products are a perfect example of really good products that sound different. How's that for spin? Not really spin though, as we all know that there are a lot of great amps out there and they all have there own character. Simply saying a Single Power is better than a Rudistor is oversimplifying to the point of usless advice, because it simply may not be true for some folks. To be truthful, this is not an easy lesson for someone like me to learn. I really want to believe there is one "right" and that I'm working towards it. To be in the position of knowing that there is more than on satisfying solution means that there is no simple goal to shoot for. Fortunatly, there are so many other issues driving the end result (price point, portability, technologies used, feature set) it really is usually a matter of making the product you are working on as good as possible rather than making the product you are working on sound a certain way. Here's the picture of the test set-up.

Fuck a duck! It's hard to keep track of what's being said where! I wish this rift in the community didn't exist. AAaaaarrrrrgggghhhh! Well I just spent the morning listening to the two amps off the Wadia. And Iron Dreamers and The Sloths comments are pointing pretty strongly to what I'm hearing. It seems to me that the Desktop w/Max modules (DM) is faster and more articulate than the Desktop Balanced w/Home modules (DBH). But the soundstage is wider and deeper on the DBH, and the sound, though a bit warm and fuzzy compared to the 627s in the DM, is also more coherent and less harsh. My guess is that while the DM is articulate and clean, it also suffers from some of the distortions that get partially canceled in the balanced drive configureation. Based purely on what should theoretically be true: the DB should have more 2nd order distortion because some of the odd order stuff should be cancelled by balanced operation, and therefor the DB should be more "tubelike" then the DM. (Major assumption there, I'll try to get some measurements to verify that some month soon.) It is a VERY wierd comparison because at first blush it just sounds like the DM is a bit brighter and quicker than the DBM; that would usually give a better sense of "air" and deeper image. But as you listen you begin to hear this ease with which the DBM projects an image and space that the DM doesn't achieve quite as well. I tried both K701s and HD650s in the test and the nature of the differences was roughly the same for both cans, however, the general consensus around here is that the 650s improve more with balanced drive than the K701s do. We assum that's because the lower impedance of the 701 causes a larger change in damping factor from balanced to unbalanced operation. (Assuming a 1 ohm output impedance of amp and 62 Ohm impedance for 701 and 300 Ohm for 650: Dammping for 650 is 300 on DM and 150 for DBH, for 701 is 62 on DM and 31 on DBH. Because your really starting to get close to the magic damping factor of 10 with the 701 driven balanced, these cans may suffer from a slight loss of damping when driven balanced compared to the 650.) In the final analysis, I would take the DBH over the DM because I am so highly averse to harshness and I really like a layed back and easy sound, but I know there are some folks who want a lightning quick sound and would percieve the DBH as "warm and fuzzy" compared to the DM. I also think that to oversimplify my listening to harsh vs. warm and fuzzy would be wrong; it really is true that there is significant latitude in "good sound" and listening tastes out there and these two products are a perfect example of really good products that sound different. How's that for spin? Not really spin though, as we all know that there are a lot of great amps out there and they all have there own character. Simply saying a Single Power is better than a Rudistor is oversimplifying to the point of usless advice, because it simply may not be true for some folks. To be truthful, this is not an easy lesson for someone like me to learn. I really want to believe there is one "right" and that I'm working towards it. To be in the position of knowing that there is more than on satisfying solution means that there is no simple goal to shoot for. Fortunatly, there are so many other issues driving the end result (price point, portability, technologies used, feature set) it really is usually a matter of making the product you are working on as good as possible rather than making the product you are working on sound a certain way. Here's the picture of the test set-up.

Errr...ah...ooops. \ Actually I have been thinking about you, old man, would you like to do a little audition/review? Do you still have your balanced cans? Seriously, I have thought about you in this whole DB developement process, and felt like this was a product that was perfect for a person like you who was demanding yet not crazy about spening large piles of cash. Personally, I'd never be able to justify one of our large amps (3 kids etc.), but I just might stretch the budget for one of the new Desktop Balanced amps as they pack so much performance without without all the pricy bells and whistles.

I was using the Meridian. I had it hooked up balanced, unbalanced, Toslink, and coax. Pretty wierd haveing an amp hooked up to a source four different ways at the same time. Result, heesh I was really hard pressed to hear much difference between any of the settings, but it did seem to me that the balanced in had the most finesse. Frankly, I got tired of trying to hear the diffrences, and I must admit that I'm a bit scared of hooking it up to the Wadia....but I will and I'll let you know what I hear tomorrow.

Thanks, and I'll third that. I could tell the difference between the Meridian 588 and the internal DAC, but just barely, so the whole built in DAC thing is pretty cool.

Just playing by the rules here, so two things: 1) Just made a post in the "Manufacturers Product Announcements" area here Fuck the second thing.

Sorry Nate, I didn't see your thread and I'm so Pavlovian-trained from Head-Fi not to post improperly that I didn't even look. Anyway, here's some pix of the guts (which I also posted in the Head-Fi thread: Here's a pic with my hand in it for scale: Here's a pic of the insides next to the amp Here's a closup of the boards. The board on the left is the top board; it has the input power filter caps and the DAC board mounted on it, the board on the right is the main board, you can see the four modules and the four stage stepped attenuator, plus all the decoupling caps on the main board. Also want to remind you this is a prototype, so you'll see lots of hand writing and hacked up boards here; production units will be significantly cleaner.

Hi All, Since half of you are banned at Head-Fi, I thought I should repost this here: Ho ho ho! And Melly Kalikimaka! (That?s Merry Christmas in Hawaiian.) I?m heading down to the Florida meet in a few days and will be showing prototypes of our newest product (so new that it's not even out yet). I thought I better start a thread in which you can ask questions if you?d like, about our new Desktop Balanced headphone amp. First, some luscious pix of the prototype: The Desktop Balanced Headphone Amp will be available with Desktop or Home modules---remember it?s balanced so that?s two pairs of module boards. Max modules are too big, and put out too much heat, to be used in the Desktop enclosure. It will also be available with both Desktop and Home Balanced Digital to Analog Converter card options. The amp has two combo jacks on the front, so you can plug in one balanced headphone, or two unbalanced cans. It has a Crossfeed and gain switch on the front in addition to the volume control----which is an Alps pot that can be upgraded to our balanced stepped attenuator. The rear panel has one pair of balanced inputs and one pair of unbalanced inputs. Yes, you heard right: unbalanced inputs. We are using a balanced line driver chip internally to create a balanced signal from an the single-ended ins---it?s not as good as using a balanced source, but it?s amazingly close and oh so much fun to hear an iPod on balanced cans. Besides, we couldn?t fit a second set of balanced ins; and the ability to use an unbalanced analog source seemed handy dandy. The amp comes stock with a new high-current switching power supply---so you don?t HAVE to buy the Desktop Power Supply to drive the thing (though it will sound better if you do). (P.S. Those of you wanting a better supply for your current HeadRoom gear who don?t want to drop the big bucks on the desktop may be interested in these supplies for your current gear. They won?t be available for sale separately for a little while---as we get our supply chain up to speed---but they are better than the standard low-cost supply we ship with gear. Price as yet unknown.) Preliminary pricing for the amp will be $899 with Desktop Modules. $199 Home modules upgrade. $299 Desktop Balanced DAC, $399 Home Balanced DAC. $199 balanced stepped attenuator upgrade. PLEASE, ask any questions here and DO NOT CALL in for info as the sales folks are buried in Christmas, and really don?t know much about the amp yet. Well?they?ve taken home for listening sessions, but so have I. Which brings us to: HOW DOES IT SOUND, DANGIT! Well, with the Desktop Power Supply and Home modules, pretty much like a balanced Home?which means pretty darn good. It always amazes me how good balanced amplification sounds: clear, tight, articulate, resolution with ease. Folks here are digging the heck out of the prototypes; we?ve had more positive comments about these amps by employees than almost any other amp. Why? Well, one thing is that it?s not so easy to drag a big Max or Home to your home or desk and give it a listen. I tend to think people are just not expecting this level of performance from such a small amp. They plug their computer or iPod into it and are pretty much floored by what they hear. So, it?s not that the Desktop Balanced is better than a Home or Max, it?s just that folks aren?t expecting it to be almost as good and it is. Oddities of note: we might have been able to squeeze Max modules into the amp, but the heat load would have gone over the line. The Desktop Balanced with Home modules gets plenty warm as it is. Mind you, not so hot as to be damaging (really, the chips like to run warm to sound their best), but we don?t recommend leaving the amp on 24/7 as over 5-10 years of continuous operation you might audibly degrade the electrolytic caps. Other oddity: don?t bother mentioning the fact that some of the lettering is askew, or that a hole in the front panel looks funny---we?re still figiting. Oh yeah, when can you get one? Probably in early February. Feel free to ask questions! Head-Fi thread is here

God! You guys are giving me wet dreams. We have the new HA2 on the schedule for 2008, and I can't wait; and someday we'll do a 300B that Pete wants to design. But, Keven, you little prancer you, that little Hamamatsu amp sounds interesting. A tube amp that would last forever sounds like a HeadRoom kind of product. What tube is it? And don't be shy to get a hold of Pete, he's one of the all time nicest guys, and wickedly good tube guys I know.

I think it's Billy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that statement as long as you change it to: While quality of parts matters, simple designs can sound better than the sum of their parts. The problem is really elegant designs that take advantage of tight integration of parts are not easy to come by. Nelson Pass amps are a beautiful thing; not many people can design like that.

I'm going....just to walk around and check it out. Maybe we'll exhibit iin the future.

Noted, old man. My intent all along has been to make membership free, so hang on to your Ben Franklin. However, I did intend to solicit Trade Members for donations to loaner gear pools, so I may yet end up twisting your arm for some cable.

Let's not try to read too much into it. I think we should let things play out for a while.

Oh. \ Sorry, duh. I didn't take offence to it anyway. It did seem like a legitimate question for me to answer. No worries, mate.

No nothing under the table except maybe that I've given Jude a module upgrade at one point. The reson I have the money is that I ran all the revinues through my books. I collected all the vendor table reciepts and I was given the cash from the meet. I then did all the acounting to summary and presented the summary to Jude with a willingness for all proceeds to go to Head-Fi. He couldn't take the raffle money, so he got some $4400 in clean money. And here I sit on the rest. I have been trying to organize a hobbyist assn. the details of which I won't go into at the moment, but some here were participating. Jude has been very uncomfortable with some of those participants and has some good reason to feel uncomfortable given the negatives expressed here. It turns out to be somewhat of a deal killer. I like Jude a lot and have been talking with him this morning at length, and communicating with him by email. I think we have made gains in understanding each others motives, and I know that we both very much want a thriving hobby. I remain hopeful that something can be worked out. As to why do we need Head-Fi: because it has great power to influence and make colaboration between the entire community possible. This is due to Jude's work over he past five years in developing an excellent community forum. Again do not take for granted what he has accomplished there, it deserves strong recognition. You all know and have at times complianed that HeadCase is a bitchfest, and has limited attraction to members at large. It was founded out of frustration and not with an ultimate goal of a unified community of headphone enthusiasts. While it might be a legitimate reaction to the things you have been feeling at Head-Fi, HeadCase, in my view, is mostly just a symptomatic angry responce to a lack of representative governance in the hobby, but it is not, nor was it designed to be, AFAIK, a constructive reaction to the problem. It's more of a pressure release. I don't have a problem with that because it just seems a natural response to some peoples feelings, but Jude doesn't quite view it that way. In the end, as I recall the "Billy the Pussy" misadventure, I tend to think this place is fundimentally divisive. I too have fallen into that with Billy. And I think it therefor poses a destructive threat to the community. However, I'm not angy with you guys because I understand, and in some ways, share your frustrations.

I would caution you all to not take for granted how much Jude as done for the hobby as you talk about his failings. We all have failings---and we are all amazingly beautiful. Any hobbyist Assn. formed would be best served by a symbiotic relationship with Head-Fi. Jude has done a good job of providing a forum for this communities dialog, it is not perfect, but it is far from fatally flawed. And it is far from fatally flawed because Jude and the moderators there have moderated it into a great place.

Hi Ethan, glad your digging it. Sorry it took so long to make it over to you, but seems like it was worth the wait. I traded Ethan the system for some SILTECH interconnects. The cables are dedicated to our Wadia-Orpheus unbalanced connection. It's a pretty big price to pay for a pair of interconnects...but it was worth it! Shilling? Maybe. Intentionally designed to annoy? Yup. Geez, mellow out! I thought this place was free for all.

Well, I am going. We bought a new van, and it's loaded with gear. I start driving Monday AM.

Nice to see you in a post, Justin. Congets on the new amp design, I look forward to hearing it at a meet somewhere along the line. If you don't mind me asking a question: What are the power supply rail voltages you are running?

Recently Bush gave a commencement address where he caustioned the student not to become so enamoured of technology that they forget their humanity. "WHAT!", I said to my self. The guy who uses million dollar missiles to blow up pick-up trucks in the desert, and who brings all the technological might of the CIA to listen to peoples phone calls is going to caution us about letting technology get to our head. Un-fucking-believable!

Ray paid for his table. I have the check.